Dr. Fox: Welcome to today’s episode of “Healthful Woman,” a podcast designed to explore topics in women’s health at all stages of life. I’m your host, Dr. Nathan Fox, an OB/GYN and maternal-fetal medicine specialist practicing in New York City. At “Healthful Woman,” I speak with leaders in the field to help you learn more about women’s health, pregnancy, and wellness.
Dr. Jessica Vernon, thank you for coming in. Thank you for coming for the podcast. I’m glad you found us on the east side of Manhattan, not on the west side. You know, that’s always an interesting “Where’s my office located?” question.
Dr. Vernon: Yes, it is very easy to find if you go to the right side of the city, though. So thank you.
Dr. Fox: I have that problem all the time because I now work on the east side and the west side, and I have to know every morning when I leave, “Where am I going?” Because I sometimes pull into the wrong parking area. I’m like, “Crap.”
Dr. Vernon: It’s Manhattan life. It’s being on-call and up-and-down and all over the place, so I totally get it.
Dr. Fox: Amazing. So I know I said in the intro, but I’ll say it again, you are obviously a doctor, you’re an OB/GYN, and you are the author of the terrific book that’s going to be coming out in May called “Then Comes Baby: An Honest Conversation About Birth, Postpartum, and the Complex Transition to Parenthood.” So you’re now an author, huh?
Dr. Vernon: Yeah, it seems very surreal because it is all ambiguous and out there for a while, and then, all of a sudden, it’s like, “Here’s the final draft of your manuscript, and it’s going to be published.”
Dr. Fox: Right, right. And we’ve never spoken of this before. We’ve never really met before. So you know, like, we’ve heard of each other but never really met. So we’re talking the first time, and I’m going to ask you because I also recently was in the process of writing a book. How long did it take? Like, what was the process for you?
Dr. Vernon: It’s been in my mind for many years that I wanted to write a book, and I didn’t know what aspect of the whole pregnancy-postpartum journey I was going to focus on. With my work with perinatal mental health and my own experience, I knew I needed to involve some of that. But really it started to come to life when I was pregnant with my second daughter, and that’s when I put the book proposal together. So that was almost three years ago now, and I made it my deadline that I would have the book proposal ready to be sent out to agents by the time I gave birth. And I did that. And so then, after my initial postpartum…
Dr. Fox: The birth of a proposal.
Dr. Vernon: Yes, after my initial… It was a good deadline to have. If it doesn’t happen now, who knows when it’ll happen?
Dr. Fox: Like, “Oh, my God, I’m contracting. I got to send this in.”
Dr. Vernon: Scheduled C-section, so luckily, I didn’t have to have contractions the second time around. But yeah, I got it in. I started talking to agents when she was a few months old, and then the whole process has been going on for the past couple of years. So it definitely is a lot more phases and steps than I ever knew, but I’m so happy it’s finally coming out there, and I’m hoping it will be able to reach more people than I do in my day-to-day practice with patients.
Dr. Fox: Yeah, that’s awesome. You know, what you did is serious. Like, you did this on your own. I sort of latched on to someone else who already knew what the hell they were doing. And so, for me, it was a breeze because I’m like, “You tell me what to do and when I have to get something to you, and we’re good.” But that’s amazing to really just come up with an idea and do it. I mean, congratulations. It’s a big, big accomplishment.
Dr. Vernon: Thank you. It was not fully on my own, though. I did have book coaches and proposal coaches and people who know the language and the etiquette and how to write things and how to submit them. So I did not do it without…
Dr. Fox: You had help.
Dr. Vernon: I definitely had help.
Dr. Fox: It’s like birth itself. You have some help, but you’re doing it.
Dr. Vernon: Exactly, exactly.
Dr. Fox: So let’s start with a little bit about you because I don’t know how many of my listeners know you already. So, who are you?
Dr. Vernon: I am an OB/GYN. I am a mom of two little girls. I have been in Manhattan, practicing for the past decade. I love being in the city. I love the diversity of patients I see here. And when I got pregnant with my first daughter, things went very smoothly, and I had a great experience throughout my pregnancy. The birth and postpartum was a lot of shock and inability to digest that there was so much of that process that I just was unaware of myself. And I ended up with postpartum anxiety, depression, and OCD for almost two years before I even realized what was going on and got the help I needed, which kind of coincided to when the COVID pandemic was shutting down Manhattan. And so that stress, along with being a doctor in the hospital and worrying about my baby at home, it just became overwhelming. I was like, “There’s something going on, and there’s something that I need to fix, and I didn’t quite know what it was.”
But once I got the help I needed for myself, and that was a long process, a lot of different layers of support, then I realized how much being a doctor, being an OB/GYN had not prepared me for that and caring for all the patients I cared for. I wasn’t asking them the right questions. I wasn’t getting all of the dialogue that I should have been getting from them to understand how they were going through all these experiences. And so it really changed how I approach and practice medicine, but it also changed my focus. And now I’m super passionate about helping people have a more supported, better cared for pregnancy and postpartum journey, especially the mental and emotional challenges that we face when we go through these experiences.
And so, for the past about six years now, I’ve focused on mental health care during pregnancy and postpartum. I still do deliveries. I’m still in the hospital. I still see patients, otherwise. But I did work at the major academic center I was at before, and now I’m at Oula, which is a startup that is midwifery-based with collaborative care with OB/GYNs, and so there’s a very holistic approach to the care provided. And I’m getting to build out mental health care there as well. And so I’m continuing the journey of being able to support more pregnant people and postpartum people during these difficult transitions in their life.
Dr. Fox: Wow, there’s so much there. I have so many questions. Oh my God, here we go. So you practice in New York. Did you grow up in New York?
Dr. Vernon: I didn’t. I grew up in Maryland.
Dr. Fox: Nice. All right.
Dr. Vernon: Yeah, I traveled down to Texas for a few brief years for medical school, came back to Maryland for residency, and then immediately transitioned to New York and have been working in multiple different types of environment in New York City for the past decade.
Dr. Fox: Right. And how far were you into your, I guess, practice of medicine after training when you had that experience of your first birth? I’m just trying to do math, it’s about, like, four or five years or something.
Dr. Vernon: Yeah, exactly, about four years.
Dr. Fox: Right. And so I’m trying to get a sense for my listeners because they’re probably thinking, “All right, so you’re an OB/GYN, you’re doing this, you’re taking care of your patients, you have a baby yourself.” What was it about your own experience with your mental health that was a surprise to you, so to speak? Was it that you could have it, you know, meaning because you never thought it would happen to you, or was it that you never knew what others went through? Because obviously, you knew about it. You learned about it. You know, it wasn’t a mystery to you that it existed. But what part of it really was it that sort of hit you?
Dr. Vernon: Really, and I think now we’re at a different place where we’re starting to have more conversations about mental health, especially post-pandemic in general and in pregnancy and postpartum. but really my training only taught me to look out for people who were having suicidal ideations, who are so depressed they couldn’t get out of bed in the morning, and we were really only asking those basic questions. We weren’t routinely even screening everybody at that point.
And so when I had severe anxiety, I had intrusive thoughts. I devolved into depression because I just thought it was never going to get better. I didn’t understand that that was part of my pregnancy. I thought I was just a new mom who is very type A and trying to do everything, and I was really running myself in circles and not able to take a step back and see what was going on. And I didn’t talk to people about it because I thought, “Maybe I’m just really bad at this. Maybe I’m just not meant to be a mom.” I felt like a failure in many ways. And I’d see other moms out on the streets with their kids. And I’m like, “They seem to get out of the door fine and not worry about, like, the whole world collapsing if something goes wrong when they’re out with their kid.” And so I just really didn’t have the right context.
When I saw patients postpartum, I wasn’t having those conversations. There was quick, like, “How are you doing?” It was a lot about the baby. Oh, there’s the baby. How are they doing? You know, it was more focused on that aspect in the physical recovery than, like, “How is this transition to parenthood going for you? Are there any struggles? What are you really feeling as you’re going through this part of your life and this major pivotal transition?” And so I had to kind of treat myself with the grace and compassion that I needed, and then I took that back to take care of other people. But it was just so much that I had never even known or heard about that I didn’t even know to relate it to, “This is something that happens to people postpartum, and it’s an extreme version of it. It happens a lot.”
Dr. Fox: Yeah. Were you working at the time? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, so much also, I mean, our training, medical school is medical school, but then an OB/GYN residency in practice is very, very tough. And it creates either maybe a true toughness or this idea that you have to be that way, that, you know, you’re never sick, you’re always up early, nothing fazes you, you got to move on to the next thing. It’s almost like military in a certain way and really don’t have that opportunity to think about yourself. And not in a good way, obviously, but it’s a consequence of that kind of training, particularly something that’s, you know, like OB, like surgical, that everything is just move, move, move, move, move, and you don’t get to reflect on yourself a lot, which makes it hard.
Dr. Vernon: And we’re applauded for doing that, for being able to stay up for 24 hours and barely eat and barely stop to go to the bathroom and make sure we get everything done before we transition to the next person. And when you have a newborn, you can’t do that. There’s always more to do. It’s never done. And trying to do it perfectly, there’s no perfect with a baby. They’re going to cry sometimes, and there’s going to be things that aren’t…there’s no schedules that I ever found that really I could make my baby stick to. But yeah, really it’s a different sort of relearning how to function in life than we do during residency, for sure.
Dr. Fox: Yeah. And then you said your practice of medicine sort of pivoted and went to a stronger focus on maternal mental health. What does that mean practically for what you were doing day-to-day? Did you start doing more, like, counseling, are you doing more screening, or just that you had a greater awareness of it? Like, what did that do to your day-to-day practice?
Dr. Vernon: Yeah. It started with more counseling and screening and really just sitting with people, whether they had experienced a loss, they were having struggles during their pregnancy or postpartum, and really just asking how they’re feeling and creating space for them to respond and feel supported and not judged. And people started opening up. But then I realized, when they were sharing with me and I’d go to, like, look for resources for people to send them to, for good therapists, for psychiatrists, who take insurance, there was really not that much. And even those people that were out there, especially people who had a focus in this area, they might have a waitlist of months. And when you have someone who’s postpartum, who’s really struggling, it’s just way too long to wait with an infant.
And so I went to the reproductive psychiatrist, which are specialists in this area at the hospital I was at, at the time, and I started doing trainings to learn how to medically manage uncomplicated patients, patients who just had anxiety and depression without any other things that they really needed a psychiatrist for, like bipolar, schizophrenia, any other things that were really serious. And I learned between my colleagues and doing trainings how to talk to patients and counsel them and initiate medication and titrate it or increase it appropriately in pregnancy and postpartum and knew who I needed to escalate to the psychiatrist. So it was really, like, giving people a space to get a level of care they needed right with their primary care provider, which we can do if we have the comfort and knowledge to do it.
And then I also had the hospital I was working at get an in-house therapist who was in our OB office, and so we had someone to refer. They didn’t have to go out and get a therapist. She took their insurance. And it also normalized the situation by being, like, “This happens all the time. We have someone right here…”
Dr. Fox: Who’s busy.
Dr. Vernon: “…who’s ready to…yeah, who’s very busy, who’s here to care for you. And I can care for you, and we can talk about these things in a way that isn’t scary or stigmatized or makes you feel like a bad parent.” So that was kind of how everything evolved on that level. And then I also worked through a grant and through the National Curriculum of Reproductive Psych, which trains psychiatry residents on how to counsel and treat patients in pregnancy and postpartum, working with these places to help create a curriculum for OB/GYN trainees so that they can learn how to do this as part of their training and not feel like they have people who are suffering in their practice and they have nowhere to send them.
Dr. Fox: Wow, that’s a lot. You’re doing…that’s really amazing. I mean, it’s awesome. I mean, this is what we need, obviously, and all the more so the things you’re talking about for people who practice in areas that don’t have, you know, doctors and psychiatrists and psychiatrists. I mean, here, you can’t throw a rock without hitting one in the head, I mean, everywhere in New York City, and it’s still hard to get care.
Dr. Vernon: It is.
Dr. Fox: Imagine in a place that has fewer resources, whether it’s financial, whether it’s just the number of people, the number of providers. And so, I guess, training and empowering the OB/GYNs who go out into the community to do this themselves rather than relying on a psychiatrist, or everybody, right, so maybe it’s 10% or 20% who need that referral, but the rest, you can counsel them. You can start an SSRI and follow them up in two weeks and do all those things. That’s great. Good for you.
Dr. Vernon: Thank you. I mean, I think a lot of us get to what we end up pursuing and are passionate about through our own lived experience. And I found that a lot of other people who do this work that I do, they also struggled in some way with pregnancy or loss or postpartum or infertility. You know, the whole journey has so many things that can go off course, and we’re just starting to talk about some of it in society. And so kind of bringing that more to people and having them have providers who are like, “I’ve been there. I see you. I hear you. It will get better,” is just so important. Even just hearing that can kind of…you can see people relax and just let go of some of that tension they’re holding.
Dr. Fox: It’s interesting. So this podcast recording today is the second one I recorded today. The first one I had, my guest was a clinical psychologist who was a patient of mine, where probably people will know because probably her podcast will be the week before yours, plus/minus. But what I was saying then, and which is so true, and I say it all the time on this podcast and to others in my life, so I finished my training in OB and MFM, I guess now 16.5 years ago, right? So in the past 16.5 years from end of my training till now, obviously, I’ve continued to learn a ton of medicine, of OB, of all this stuff. The thing that I’ve learned the most and where I…maybe it’s because I knew the least at the time, was regarding mental health, was regarding psychology, regarding sort of emotions and experience, because that’s something…it’s just not taught that much, unfortunately, and so much of it is also just experience, talking to people, listening to people, getting a sense of how different people process the same thing differently. And you know, some of its knowledge, some of its wisdom. But where I look to how much I think I understand now compared to then, it’s night and day. I mean, I knew nothing right when I started, and I think that it’s this black box that we don’t cover, unfortunately. I agree, we’re doing better now than we did then, and you know, we continue to improve, but we got a ways to go.
Dr. Vernon: Yeah, the art of conversation is so important, and that’s one of the biggest things that I always talk to medical students and residents about, is it’s not just what you’re relaying to the patient but how you’re saying it. And I see people who may have had a miscarriage five years ago, and they can still remember the exact words that doctors said to them and how terrible it felt and how traumatizing it was. And so this is another big thing I took away from giving birth, is that even though we do this every single day and we might deliver five babies on a shift and we might do so many emergency C-sections and all of these complications, especially when you’re in a big academic center, for that person, this might be their one experience with that or there might be a few experiences. And how you talk to them, how you interact with them, how you center them in their care is so important and pivotal to how they process that experience, and whether they have trauma or not, and whether they come out of it saying, “I never want to have another baby again,” or, “I was so scared I was going to die. I can’t even think about going back and getting pregnant.” And so what we do really changes their lives in so many ways. And just those little changes in how you sit and talk to someone and look at them in the eye and relay these very difficult conversations, so critical
Dr. Fox: To present. When I speak to people, either in practice or in my own life or on the podcast, about their pregnancies, about their deliveries, about their births, obviously, there are situations where things end up going well at the end, like, ultimately, healthy mom, healthy baby, whatever it is, or ultimately, things didn’t go well. And whether they report that they feel trauma from the birth is not necessarily correlated with the outcome, right? So many people who, ultimately, they and their baby are fine, have horrible trauma from the birth, whereas others who had awful outcomes, they don’t feel the trauma from the birth because it’s not…I mean, obviously, the outcome affects it, but it’s not just the outcome. It’s the experience going through it. And so, you know, when I’m with, let’s say, you know, on the labor floor, I’m with a resident, with a student, and we’re about to do an emergency C-section, right? So you got to do it. You got to do it quickly. You know, people’s lives are at the line here. Fine.
But I always say, like, it’s very different if you run in the room versus if you walk in the room, or if you walk in the room and the first thing you do is you speak to the person and you say, “Here’s what’s going on. Here’s what we need to do.” It’s a lot different than if you’re in the room and start grabbing somebody, right? Because one is traumatic and one’s not traumatic. Or if someone has to get put to sleep and if all you do is, beforehand, just, like, hold their hand and say, “We’re going to take good care of you,” that changes the entire experience, potentially, even though the outcome may be exactly the same. And that’s not something you could put in a textbook, unfortunately. You just have to learn it or live it or make a mistake and do it wrong and have someone tell you, like, “You traumatize me.” Like, “Oh, crap.” Because no one wants to, obviously. No one means to do that. But you have to be told like, “Hey, the way you did this was wrong. You got to do it better.” And then you do it better, hopefully, before we make a mistake, we can learn.
Dr. Vernon: Totally. We have to be so humble in being care providers. I think part of being in medical school and residency is you learn to have this feeling that you’re supposed to have all the answers and you’re supposed to know how to do things the right way. And then you get out there in the world, and we’re just human too, and often, there’s many nuances that could go any different way. And just having the conversations with the patients in a way that they feel centered and they feel heard and not judged and speaking to them in a way that they understand, like, you’re learning too, and you know, providing that culturally humble and person-centered care really goes so far in helping people feel seen and cared for in a way where they were part of the conversation and their voice matters.
Dr. Fox: Is this sort of shift in your mentality that you talked about the reason why you moved to Oula, or was it just sort of a coincidence? I’m assuming it’s related. I mean, I know Oula. I love Oula. I mean, you guys are awesome.
Dr. Vernon: Oh, thank you.
Dr. Fox: And you know, we have a terrific relationship with you guys, you know. So I have only positive things to say. So I assume that that’s why you moved over there, but I guess I’ll let you answer that.
Dr. Vernon: There were a lot of reasons that it’s definitely the culture and the holistic care approach is super important. Also, I like to be able to make a difference, and I loved being in a big academic center for what it was. But when you’re in a place that is looking to make change and introduce new things and they can rapidly try new things and see what works and see what doesn’t work, you know, the idea of going to them and then saying, “You like to do mental health? Come start mental health at Oula. Let’s do this, and let’s build out other things that help our patients and help provide care in a better way for them and improves the quality of care,” was really exciting. But also, I’ve always loved working with midwives. I did my medical school in Texas, and I spent my third and fourth year actually on the border where midwives basically ran labor and delivery, and they called the OBs in when they needed operative delivery or a C-section.
And so I learned the art of talking to patients, the art of labor and assessing the position of the baby and helping these people who didn’t think they were ever going to push their baby out be able to push their baby out and then sit with them and see them, like, newly empowered in this new space that they never could have imagined before. It was really important to me. And unfortunately, a lot of places in New York, you don’t get that midwife-OB collaborative care. So I was really excited to work with the midwives. And we have some really incredible midwives at Oula.
Dr. Fox: Yes, you do. And what does it mean? What does it mean to be the director of clinical product? I like that. I like that title. I want to understand it
Dr. Vernon: As a clinician, we’re like, “What the heck does that mean?”
Dr. Fox: What’s a clinical product?
Dr. Vernon: And products can be anything you’re building, really. So in the sense of what I’m doing, is I’m looking for places where we can improve care, and some of it is stuff that’s brought to me from the business side or the clinicians, and a lot of it is involving tech and building things in a way. Like, for instance, now how we do blood pressure monitoring is patients log their blood pressures a couple of times a day in our portal, and we have certain flags that trigger. We get an alert if the patients reach a certain level. So we can reach out in real-time and be like, “Hey, how are you feeling? What’s going on?” And this is decreasing fallout on people monitoring their blood pressure. If they don’t log for a certain number of days, we get a trigger to say, “Hey, this patient’s not checking her blood pressure.”
Dr. Fox: Right. You can run, but you can’t hide. We got you.
Dr. Vernon: Exactly. And we did the same thing with mental health screenings. If someone has a severe screener or they answer that they’ve had suicidal thoughts, I get a flag immediately. It can reach out to the patient, same day, see what’s really going on, how they’re feeling, and make sure they get resources lined up in real-time. So those are the sort of things. There’s all different ways it can go, but it’s really getting to use a more creative side of my brain and being like, these are things that we see all the time that either the patients aren’t satisfied with, the clinicians aren’t satisfied with, or that the business side wants us to make more streamlined and efficient. And we kind of integrate all of that feedback and create new systems to improve the care.
Dr. Fox: And how long have you been there now?
Dr. Vernon: About a year and a half.
Dr. Fox: How’s that been working out?
Dr. Vernon: It’s good. It’s good. It’s a very different type of place, but it is really good. And I think just the people are so mission-driven that I have never worked with a greater group of clinicians. And I’ve had a lot of amazing colleagues over the years. But I think, like, everybody at Oula has come there for the same reason, and yeah, we really love it, all of us who are there.
Dr. Fox: Yeah, it’s really interesting. And I don’t know what spawned my love of Oula. Because I’m a fan, right? We’re a high-risk practice, and you guys are basically like a midwifery practice, you know, collaborative. And you would think that they’d be so different. But what I found in our earliest conversations with you guys is it’s really the same mission just for a different population, right, for people either who don’t require high-risk care or aren’t seeking it or looking for something different. But that idea that, you know…and again, it’s not to dump on hospitals because it’s hard to do these things in a hospital, there’s bureaucracy, there’s red tape, there’s regulation, there’s just stuff that you can’t do efficiently in a hospital that you can if you’re sort of “private” in that sense. And so this is not to say anything bad about hospital.
But if you get a bunch of people together who run the place and have sort of the ability and authority to make positive change and are mission-aligned, you can do some pretty cool things. And I saw that. I was like, “I love what they’re doing,” right? So it’s probably not the right place for many of my patients to go to, but it probably is the right place for a few of them to go to, the ones who sort of don’t have any issues or whatever it is. And so I think that’s why it’s been such a nice collaboration because we sort of know who are the right people to be by you and you know the right people to be by us. And great, and everyone’s on the same page.
Dr. Vernon: Yeah. And we’ve had such a great relationship with your practice. And I know I’ve actually worked with some of the MFM’s in your practice before in other places. And I know I’m like, “These are people who are really good at counseling in a way that the patients don’t come back to me terrified.” And that’s so…
Dr. Fox: Unless they need to be, which isn’t typical.
Dr. Vernon: True. But even then, they know they have, like, this support. They have the care plan. And obviously, there are some really horrendous things that people can go through in pregnancy. They can get some information that is just really, really brutal to take in, and it takes good high-risk specialists to relay that information in a way that doesn’t traumatize the patient and that they know, like, “Okay, I’m going through a really difficult time, but I have the support I need.” And a lot of times, we’re collaborating with you, which is awesome. We have patients who really want to have their midwife deliver them, but they need a lot of oversight from the high-risk doctor. And we’re able to make that work.
And so I think it’s also kind of playing with, like, traditional models versus models of practice that we can do in a setting where, no, we don’t have a completely low-risk population, especially in New York City. We take care of a very heterogeneous group of people from all different lived experiences, all different cultures and background. And it’s so cool that we get to do this and take care of people from every marginalized group possible and also people who could pay cash for their whole pregnancy and birth. But we can do it in a collaborative way with your group, with the OBs and the midwives, and make sure everyone gets the quality of care and the level of care they need but also gets the experience they deserve.
Dr. Fox: Yeah, it’s so interesting. It’s sort of that idea that, like, a little bit of knowledge could be worse, you know. And so, you know, I find that because I spend so much time with, like, crazy problems, right, really high-risk situations, really complex, you know, like, that’s what I do. It’s what I love doing. And people like me, not just me, obviously, we don’t freak people out about the things that aren’t that because we know they’re not that, right? So, “All right, you got something. It’s probably going to be fine. Here’s what we have to do. Here’s why we’re going to bring you back. Here’s why we do this and that. But you know, it’s probably fine because it’s not this horrible thing.” And so people walk out of this thing, “All right. Okay. It’s something, but it should be okay.” Versus if you never see anything crazy, you’re like, “Oh, my God. Oh, what are we going to do about this?”
And I just think that sometimes we have the ability to put things in the right perspective if you see more. And that’s why I think it’s been nice to see your patients because we don’t have to freak them out, because, usually, it’s nothing too crazy. It’s usually, you know, whatever, things that come up, and they come up all the time. And if people get that context that this is not something so out of the ordinary, then they’re not going to be too terrified.
Dr. Vernon: But sometimes they don’t know that because they never knew that these things existed. And so that’s part of why I wrote the book, because there’s so many things that these are within the spectrum of things that happen often when giving birth and postpartum that if you’re not prepared for them or you didn’t know they exist, you will get freaked out and you think there’s something wrong with you. And so having that context and having that knowledge in advance can be really helpful, I think, for all of us when we’re going through these experiences.
Dr. Fox: A hundred percent. And that is a perfect segue. No, perfect. Like, thank you. What we’re going to do is we’re going to pause here, and then, in part two, we’re going to focus on the book. So thank you for part one. This is, like, a perfect introduction to who you are and what brings you to the book. And then we’re going to talk about the book in part two.
Thank you for listening to the “Healthful Woman” podcast. To learn more about our podcast, please visit our website at www.healthfulwoman.com. That’s healthfulwoman.com. If you have any questions about this podcast or any other topic you would like us to address, please feel free to email us at hw@healthfulwoman.com. Have a great day.
The information discussed in “Healthful Woman” is intended for educational uses only and does not replace medical care from your physician. “Healthful Woman” is meant to expand your knowledge of women’s health and does not replace ongoing care from your regular physician or gynecologist. We encourage you to speak with your doctor about specific diagnoses and treatment options for an effective treatment plan.
