“The impact of an arts education on children, Part 1” – with Amelia Gold

Today on Healthful Woman, we are joined by Amelia Gold. Amelia is a Juliard-trained violinist, a master violin teacher, and the head of school and Director of the Arts at the Elizabeth Morrow School in Englewood, New Jersey. Amelia is Dr. Fox’s neighbor and close friend and will be talking about the impact of an arts education on the social and emotional health of children.

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Dr. Fox: Welcome to today’s episode of “Healthful Woman,” a podcast designed to explore topics in women’s health at all stages of life. I am your host, Dr. Nathan Fox, an OBGYN and maternal-fetal medicine specialist practicing in New York City. At “Healthful Woman,” I speak with leaders in the field to help you learn more about women’s health, pregnancy, and wellness.

Amelia Gold, thank you for coming on my podcast. I love it. This is awesome. I’ve been waiting for this for years.

Amelia Gold: I am so excited. I’m bursting with excitement.

Dr. Fox: Bursting with excitement. So Amelia, you are professionally the Associate Head of School, and you are currently the Head of the Lower School, and the Director of the Arts, for the Elisabeth Morrow School, in the great town of Englewood, New Jersey, which is an elite Lower School in the town of Englewood. And more importantly, you are my dear friend, and across-the-street neighbor.

Amelia Gold: Amen to that, and all of those things are true, including the great town of Englewood part.

Dr. Fox: And you’re a native, like my wife, like Michal. You guys are born and raised.

Amelia Gold: Yes, we’re actually born and raised a house or two between us. I came home from the hospital to my little house in Englewood, and I moved down the street, because 25 houses away from my mother and father was pretty much as far as I wished to travel.

Dr. Fox: Well, it was to our delight that we’ve gotten to live near you, and know you and your beautiful family so well, and what you do. And you know, Michal said, why don’t you have Amelia on the podcast, and I was thinking, well, you know, it’s a podcast about women’s health… But we’re broad in terms of our scope, and I think that, you know, parenting, and children, and education all fall under a healthful life, and so I think that this is…it’s within our reach, I would say. Plus, you’re cool.

Amelia Gold: I love you guys, and I’m so honored to be here. And I do think in my 23 years of, you know, raising my own children, and my 31 years supporting other people raising their children, I agree with that, you know, that if you choose to be a mother, and are a parent, managing the health and wellness of that is attached to our children. And you know, the saying, you know, you’re only as happy as your most unhappy child definitely rings true for me personally, and I see that professionally every single day. So I’m happy to be here to chat.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, I’ve said many times that that is one of the truest statements ever about parenting. It is absolutely the truth. And I thought that we would talk about…and this is sort of the topic, you put it in nice wording for me, the impact of arts education on the social and emotional health of children. And we’re going to unpack all of that, but I want to talk a little bit, just so our listeners, who might not live across the street from you, and might not send their children to Elisabeth Morrow, or signed up for violin lessons sometime in the, you know, ’90s, 2000s, 2010s and 2020s in Bergen County, they may not know who you are. So let’s go into a little bit about who is Amelia Gold, so tell us your story. Like, where are you from, and how did you get to this place? And that’s an open-ended question. You can go any direction you want with that.

Amelia Gold: Okay, cool. So when I heard you say, who is Amelia Gold, I’m like, da, da, da…right? Here we go.

Dr. Fox: That’s me!

Amelia Gold: So I am Amelia Gold. I was raised here in Englewood, New Jersey as a family of five children. Both of my parents are doctors. One’s a clinical psychologist, my father was a pediatric neurologist. So community life, Jewish life, artistic life, intellectual life was the setting in which we all were raised here, and I went to the (indiscernible 00:04:09.870) school for my youngest years, pre-K through grade five, and then I went to Columbia Grammar and Prep School in the city, and I started at Manhattan School of Music Preparatory Division when I was four years old, and I started violin when I was three years old. My teacher was Dorothy Kaplan Roffman, who is the founding director of the Thurnhauer School of Music at the JCC.

And that’s a school that my mother founded with the idea that she credits me with, that you know, I said if I grew up, I don’t know if I want my children to go to music school on Saturday. Because that’s when Manhattan School of Music was, and that was my most favorite thing, you know? It’s where I really felt seen, and I could be my real authentic person. And there was no music school that offered any other days but Saturday at the time, and there still are very few. So she created the music school, where all four of my children now attend, and I taught for 27 years.

From high school, I was lucky enough to be a part of the first cohort in the Columbia-Barnard-Julliard dual degree program, and because it was the first year, and because I had an incredible dean, Dorothy Denburg, they were able to make it work for me. I never finished the program, but I graduated from Julliard, not from Barnard. I’m still a junior there. So even though Michaela’s a student, every now and again they’ll tell me I should come back to finish my credits.

Dr. Fox: Is that right, you didn’t finish, technically, Barnard, it was just Juilliard?

Amelia Gold: I never finished Barnard. I never…

Dr. Fox: Or just, you know, just Juilliard.

Amelia Gold: I didn’t finish. So I still have about a year and a half left of credits at Barnard College, which dingle, maybe if Rebecca goes, maybe I’ll finally get my life together over there.

But I finished at Juilliard, and I loved Juilliard a lot, and I met my amazing husband 34 years ago when we were 19 there. That’s probably one of the greatest gifts that Juilliard gave me. And I wanted to take a year off in between my master’s and my bachelors, just because it’s like going to Juilliard is like training for the Olympics, and it’s very intense, all-encompassing, and I was kind of exhausted.

Dr. Fox: What does that mean, when you… Just when, like, when you say it’s very intense, does that mean, you know, you’re playing violin, like, 12 hours a day? Like, what are we talking about here?

Amelia Gold: Yeah, so you know, it was funny, one of my own children asked me, like, what was school like for you? And I said, I would wake up in the morning, and I would take the train or the bus or a cab to school. When I was living at Barnard my senior year, I lived in The Dorchester on 68th Street, and so I just would walk. And I would arrive at school around 8:00 in the morning, and I would leave at a little bit after 11:00 at night because the building closed.

Dr. Fox: Oh, my God.

Amelia Gold: So I was either in classes, or practicing all day. Like, I don’t know how to say it any other way. Especially my senior year, because the graduation requirements are very intense. It’s actually easier to get into Juilliard than to get out because they really, you know, push you to the limit as it’s a tiny little school, you know? There’s only 70 kids in a class there, in a grade, and that’s, you know, all of the different areas. So it’s a tiny little school.

And luckily I had the growth mindset before that was a saying, and I just knew I wanted to play music. I wasn’t like, I want to do this, I want to do that…I want to play in an orchestra, I want to be the next someone. You know, people used to say, do you want to play chamber music, do you want to be in an orchestra, and I was like, I just want to play music. Like, I kind of had a naive and beautiful view on what it is to be an artist, you know? Not based in winning, not based in, you know, achievement culture, which is like, where our children live right now. And that really left me open to, like, always wanting to just be better, to be a better artist, to have my voice be heard.

And I was okay that I wasn’t perhaps “the best.” I didn’t have an agent…you know? And I just wanted to learn.

Dr. Fox: Did you think it would end with a career in music?

Amelia Gold: That was the only career.

Dr. Fox: Got it.

Amelia Gold: You know, we always say if you’re going to an art school, you don’t go there because you want to, you go there because you have to. It is a calling. Because everything… You know, and that’s something I often say to my students, who say they want to be artists. I say, you know, is there anything else you think you can be satisfied doing? If there is, do not go this road. Because it’s too hard. You have to want it at that level, and you have to need it. So you know, at a young age, like art and you are not separated, right? It’s one thing. And then you spend your whole adult life trying to separate your art from who you are, you know?

But as a child, children don’t have that ability. What they create is who they are, right? Which is why grades and achievement culture, and the nuclear arms race in education have such a detrimental impact on young people, and which is, you know, why we’re seeing all of this.

But so anyway, then I graduated from Juilliard. My husband, Brian, went to go play in the Jerusalem Symphony in Israel, and I had signed a contract with the Elisabeth Morrow School here in Englewood, New Jersey. They offered me a job to be the conductor of the orchestra, and to teach violin. And I did not feel qualified to conduct the orchestra, and I told them that after they hired me, and I thought they definitely wouldn’t give me the job. I was 21 years old, and I had taught for a bunch of years at the JCC, and Dorothy, basically when I turned 19, she basically demanded that I come and teach with her on Saturdays. And I was like, I don’t even want to be a teacher, but I couldn’t say no to Dorothy…no one does. And basically, I, you know, was apprenticed by her for, you know, officially for three years, and of course now, the last 30 years.

And so they gave me this job at EMS, teaching violin, and they hired another person to conduct the orchestra, and he had a doctorate, and years of experience, and it didn’t work out with him. And my head of school then came to me and said, Amelia, do you want to conduct the orchestra? And I watched him, I had the benefit of watching him, what from my perspective worked, what from my perspective didn’t work, and I said, yeah, I could do this for a year, which is kind of the story of my life. I did it, and I didn’t know that I’d love conducting children, you know, more than probably anything else that I do, and I’ve been doing that for the last 31 years.

I also have continued to be on the faculty at Manhattan School of Music also for the last 31 years as a member of the violin faculty, and I taught at the JCC, I believe I taught there 25-ish years, and I’ve been a parent there for 20 years. Rebecca still attends the Thurnauer School of Music, and I still go to almost every single one of her lessons twice a week. And people actually say to me, like, when are you going to stop going to Rebecca’s lessons? She’s 13 years old… And the Suzuki mindset, you know, is still so ingrained in who I am, I said, with my other three, I attended all of their lessons until they went to high school, and next year Rebecca will go to high school, and because she’s my baby, I will also probably attend.

And during those years, I started the EMS Summer String Festival, which kind of grew out of what I thought the children needed, which is like a community during the summer to connect with kids outside of EMS, and that has been… You know, I call that my fifth child, because this year will be I think year 28 or 29…I forgot, and a program that now brings children from all over the world. We have an endowment to support the financial aid program, so it’s one of the only programs in America that gives tuition aid to students as young as four to help them in their learning to, you know, keep the music community and access to arts education robust and diverse. Because, you know, right now you can get a master’s at Yale, maybe, and not have to pay a cent, but you never get access to that if you don’t get the training when you’re little, and training is expensive.

So that work, you know, in terms of access to arts education has really been a deep passion of mine all these years as well, knowing how lucky our students are at Elisabeth Morrow School, and my children are, and how that’s not the case for the kids down the street. So you know, I hold that in my heart, you know, everyday as I live in this role of, you know, administrator, arts educator, parent, community member. I try to keep that perspective, you know, wide and deep.

Dr. Fox: When did you move from just, so to speak, doing conducting, and running the musical program, to also running the school, essentially? Like, to have… I assume it’s somewhat unusual for the person running the music program to then become, like, the head of school?

Amelia Gold: Yeah, so I’m the Associate Head of School, so I help Dr. Beck run the school, but I do run a division of the school. So I have been so fortunate to have worked with my supervisors who saw ingredients in me that I did not see. And to me, that’s what a great mentor-supervisor is, right? There’s all different kinds of supervisors, and I have been graced with mentor-supervisors, who said, hey, you know, she’s good at this. Let’s see if we can use those ingredients for something else, which of course is the essence of arts education, right? It’s like you’re learning all of these skills, you’re developing who you are as a learner, as a thinker, as an artist, and how that ripples out for me is similar, of course, what I want for my students.

So when I was 24 years old, I had an idea for a music festival, and my head of school was an amateur cellist, Stephen Jones, may he rest in peace. And he was an incredible mentor to me. And because he played in my orchestra, and because I was like, five years old, every day after orchestra, we would sit and talk. So as I was learning, he was learning, so both of us had, you know, flip-flopped skill sets. And I was very open to his feedback on how to be a better teacher, and he was very open to my wild and crazy ideas.

So one day I said to him, I have an idea for a festival, and I shared this idea, and he said let’s talk about it next [inaudible 00:15:49] And he actually paid me, I remember, $7,000, to work for a year to develop the String Festival, and that was the beginning of me becoming a business person and an administrator. And I did this with the support of Stephen. And he taught me how to… You know, I had to go to the board, and do a board presentation… I mean, these were like, core experiences, and I wasn’t alone. I had the support. And this, you know, I see with young people, I don’t always see that happening for them, and that’s something that now that I’m in that seat, I’m constantly, you know, working on developing people where I see those skill sets, and he and I did that together.

And then, you know, my next headmaster, David Lowery, was like, I want you to be chair of the arts division. I’m like, I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to work for the man. I don’t like labels.

Dr. Fox: By the way, you’re not working for the man, you are the man.

Amelia Gold: I know. Well, but I didn’t know that at the time. And so I didn’t want to have those barriers between my colleagues and myself. Because you have to remember, I took this job when I was 21 years old. Now I’m 52. You know, at that time I just hired my friends to work with me, and now they’re all famous, you know? But we were all kids together. So we built the program together, and then I had to step in and be like, okay, now I’m the boss, which was a big challenge.

Dr. Fox: Right. I mean, my question was a little bit of a setup, because I think one of the themes that’s going to come out over the course of this podcast, just by knowing you, is that no one would say boo if a great math teacher, and then math department chair, or an English teacher became a head of school. No one would think twice about that. They’d say, oh, that’s a normal, you know, sort of progression.

Amelia Gold: Yeah.

Dr. Fox: And I think that the fact that there might be a question of how would a music teacher do that, and I think that one of the themes is that…and I know that your sort of philosophy will talk about this on, you know, arts education and music education, is that it’s no different from math. Just like we think all kids should learn math, they should all learn music and arts. So it’s a part of a curriculum, and so the person who is running the music program is as qualified, or more, as whoever’s running whatever program it might be, again whether it’s math, or science, or you know, literature, or whatever it might…you know, a foreign language, or whatever it might be, to be an administrator and be a head of school, because it’s the same principles of education that apply to the arts as it does to the non-arts, so to speak.

Amelia Gold: Yes. I mean, I can’t amplify that even more than what you just said, you know?

And I had another incredible head of school, Aaron Cooper, who was an athlete, he was an All-American runner, who really had very limited arts education. He played the French horn when he was a little child, and you know, it was not really his thing. And after his children were learning the violin, he came to me and said, like, Amelia, how could not every child have this? And I was like, I know. And he, alongside the team of administrators I was working with, we then created an instrumental music program as part of the core program for the students in the school. And you know, we are still one of the only schools where every child in our school gets, you know, three musical instrumental experiences a week, two of them at least are lessons with world-renowned artist faculty.

And he saw, it was actually… You know, as I reflect back, of course, we were all young, and we were all in it, I was like, this is kind of amazing, you know, that he felt this strongly about that. And that it shouldn’t be something extra. It shouldn’t be an extra fee, it shouldn’t be a choice, that this is intrinsic to the education of our kids. And when I have time, one day when I’m old, I will write a paper on this, because I’ve seen it, I’ve seen the impact on the social-emotional development of the children, their memory, their willingness to take critical feedback, their ability to, you know, show sustained effort over time, which I would say is the most critical ingredient for success in anything you want to do, is really taught through the arts.

So you know, in our school, when I was made associate head of school by my current amazing head of school, who I can tell you that story, because that’s really the turning point in my career, you know? At EMS, it was like, totally, right? It’s like, of course someone with this skill set should be able to do this work. And you know, no administrator, ideally, should be the expert in all areas, right? Because we want to lean on our department chairs, and the people… You know, I always say, you know, as a leader of a division, you know, the people that teach literacy need to feel like it is the most important thing in the world, and the people that teach STEAM and science need to feel like it’s the most important thing in the world, and etc., etc. And music and arts education is also one of the most important things in the world, and it’s up to the leader to make sure that children have a balanced experience so that they can be generalists enough to figure out what they love, or what they like, or what they tolerate just because it’s in school, right?

You know, we’re a school where everyone is in the orchestra. So when I go up to Morrow House, which is our middle school, I’m conducting an orchestra of 155 kids. Imagine a school where everyone is learning an instrument that they chose over all of their years, and we’re all on one team, what the ripple effects are on feeling connected, feeling like they belong, feeling like they have a voice, feeling that they have some choice.

So this kind of created, like, a perfect little storm for me to take on this work. And I’m a servant leader. Like, I don’t aspire to be an administrator. That’s not, like, something that is a dream of mine. And I love children. I love learning. I love my school. And it’s really fun for me, and I know that’s not a typical thing to say, but it is fun for me to help cultivate the learning experience for the children, support families who are more confused than ever, as so many families today are not choosing to raise their children in the manner in which they were raised, full stop. So if you’re looking for another way, you’re kind of on your own, right?

And with a very diverse, beautifully diverse school, we also in our school have many families who don’t have a deep bench of family members living with them here in this country. So whereas, like, I’d have a worry, and my mother would be like, don’t worry about it, you were just like that when you were little, and he’ll go to the bathroom, you know, you don’t have to worry about potty training, you know, a lot of our families don’t have that. So our school and school community really become that for the families. You know, I always say I’m like, you know, another grandmother to the children. And everyone laughs when I say that, but that’s how I feel. Like, I love them, and I will hold them accountable. But, you know…

Dr. Fox: Yeah, a few years ago you probably said mother, and then you had to upgrade to grandmother. That’s sad.

Amelia Gold: I had to. I had to.

Dr. Fox: All right. I want to just pivot for one second, because I absolutely want to talk about the impact that your parents had on you becoming an educator, and becoming someone who works with children, specifically. I mean, I see…you know, I know your parents, I know your father, and his name is everywhere in an important and beautiful way, because he was also a visionary and did things a little bit differently, I would say, than the world of doctors used to do it. And I wondered if you could talk a little about that, about your parents, and what they’re like, and how that impacted you, and the choices you’ve made.

Amelia Gold: Oh, I love that question. Because yesterday, on Friday, I was having a meeting, and I said to a parent, I’m like, you know, my father would say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…and that happens about 100 times a day. My father had a saying that when you’re sharing with a family something that might be hard, you have to sit with it, and you have to wait ’til they then look up at you, and look at you with the eyes or the language that says, I understand, and the time and care that goes into that.

So, you know, both my… I had the benefit of growing up at a time, as we all did, where there were no cell phones, texts, or email. So I’ve overheard conversations that my parents have had with people that really…that the language embedded into who I am. So, you know, my mom was the president of the JCC. I would hear her working out hard and difficult conversations with people. I would hear my father in the other room, you know, having hard discussions with families. I would hear him dictating all night… And the language and the love and the care that they showed community members, his patients, his residents…

You know, my dad had a rule that if a resident called him, he would always go in. Now if the resident called him in the middle of the night, he would allow the resident to do what they thought, but my father was there, you know? My father visited his patients seven days a week if they were in the hospital. So I grew up going to the hospital every Sunday with my father, for him to do rounds. There was no HIPAA. You know, I knew his patients, I knew the nurses, and the love and care and warmth that was emanated by his being, and my mother’s still to this day, had an enormous impact on me.

And as I work with teachers now, I’ve harnessed the energy of the sun. My father was like a sun, you know, radiating. And that is something that, you know, as I was trying to teach the next generation of teachers, that’s an image that I share with them, that when you come into a class, your smile, your energy should be like the rays of the sun, putting your arms around the children so they know you love them, and you care about them, you know? That’s not a word that I shy away from, I love my students. I love my colleagues. I sign my emails “love.” Some people are like, I just met you, why are you…you know? People are like, that’s Amelia, that’s her style. But how can you raise children without love? Like, that is the essence of what allows them to learn and grow, and fail and pick themselves up, right?

So I would also say that my parents, their ability to give to others, my mother all day is on the phone, she’s 86 years old, on the phone, counseling people with their children, with their marriage, with community issues. She is constantly trying to improve the state of the world. And when I was a little girl, both my sister and I who were home, my big siblings were in college at the time, my father would have his breakfast, and we would go up to his head, to his brain, and try to suck out all the knowledge before we went to school. It was like a thing we did, because we knew he was so smart and so awesome. And my father would look at us and say, girls, try to improve the state of the world today, you know?

And we didn’t really… Maggie and I talk about this all the time, like, that was just like how he said goodbye. It wasn’t until we were adults that we’re like, you mean you weren’t raised where your father charged you to change the world when you were a kid? But that kind of mindset of, like, you, child, are not the center of the world, you know? It is your job to improve the spaces that you’re in. And while you can’t fix the whole world, you can fix your sphere, right? So you know, that’s something that I personally think about every day. And in terms of, like, my work in the community, you know, through bergenPAC, through other arts organizations, that’s where I feel like I can make a difference for children. And you know, my hope is like, if we raise the next generation for everyone to just take their little part, we all together can make a big difference, and that I don’t…you know?

Because that can be overwhelming. And I do feel like young people today are feeling overwhelmed by the bigness of the challenges of the world, instead of creating the mindset to be like this is where I can make a difference, and my friend is going to make this difference, and this other friend is going to make this difference, and together, we’re all making a difference, right?

Dr. Fox: Yeah.

Amelia Gold: I can’t talk enough about the impact of my parents, because it’s like every day I’m realizing the impact.

Dr. Fox: It’s also amazing that the thing that your…at least your father’s legacy, what he’s best known for is humanism, right? And which is so… He was a doctor, right? It’s not the medicine aspect of it, although he was a brilliant physician, his legacy is humanism. And you know, when I’m interviewing people, looking through CVs, and I see it all the time, that they boast that they’re a Dr. Arnold Gold Humanism Award winner, I’m like, I knew that guy, you know?

Amelia Gold: Yeah, that’s very cool.

Dr. Fox: Like, I’m friends with his daughter.I’m like, that’s cool. I’m like, you get extra points with me because that’s on your CV, you know? Others may not know who that is, but that’s a big deal to me. I love that. So tell me about that sort of program.

Amelia Gold: So basically, my father had a patient that one day gave him $10,000 to, say, do something good for children. And my mother and my father, it was really my mother who was like, Arnold, why don’t we just, like, start making a difference? You’re complaining about the change in healthcare, and that, you know, the cancer patient in room 101, instead of the person, why don’t we do something about it? And they started the Arnold P. Gold Foundation, which is a public not-for-profit. My mother started it in the porch on Lincoln Street. And they set out to change the medical education system in America, and the AAMC, Association of American Medical Colleges, were like, yeah, right. Good luck. And they started at Columbia, and used that as a laboratory, and basically, they’re cultural change agents who have infiltrated every single medical school in America, and in most of the world through their White Coat Ceremony, and really through the mindset.

You know, people weren’t saying, like, mindset, and dispositions, like, that wasn’t part of the language 25, 30 years ago, right? That’s a part of educational language right now, but that didn’t exist, you know? So the idea they started with, the White Coat Ceremony, that why are people saying the Hippocratic Oath at graduation? They should receive their white coat in the beginning of their journey to set up the mindset and dispositions as like, I am a healer, I am a doctor, I’m here to improve the state of the world, and that that, then, would be the guiding force of all of their learning. So that continues today, obviously, you know, now the nursing schools all have it.

And then they wanted to create these exemplars, knowing that people like my father, Michal’s dad, these amazing physicians who cared for entire communities, and changed people’s lives with their care, not necessarily with their science, although oftentimes it is both, to create those exemplars so that the focus wasn’t only on academia. It’s like creating a school, you know, that only is grades and test scores. It’s like, that only tells so much of a person. And especially in medicine, where like, in the end, you are dealing with a human being.

I mean, I say this to teachers all the time, it is holy work to be a teacher, and be responsible for supporting the soul of a human being child. I mean, that is some serious stuff. I mean, the other day I saw a quote from Mr. Rogers that said, “To children, teachers and parents are the most important people in the world, and therefore, teachers and parents are actually the most important people in the world,” right?

So you know, doctors, you’re dealing with a whole person, not just an illness. And at the time that they were having this conversation, people were like, yeah, that’s a lot of what I call in music education dancing with scarves. They don’t understand the impact, and they did, and they do. And they’re definitely…I love that you’re drawing that parallel, you know? It’s something that I had not really thought about until this moment, about arts education being that multivitamin for children, you know?

Dr. Fox: Yeah. Yeah.

Amelia Gold: That intense learning, plus the joy, and the choice. You know, how do you set up children to be lifelong learners? We know, Natie, that our kids are going to probably do jobs that don’t exist at this time. Maybe not our kids, but like, those kids right now in first grade. And they might be our kids, right? Because the world is evolving so rapidly. And it’s not about how you do with this grade or this test, it’s more about, like, how do you learn? How do you take on new projects? How do you collaborate with people? How do you take feedback?

Through my years, our years of parenting, we’ve seen the stage of like, every kid gets a trophy, you know? Like, we went through that. Then [inaudible 00:35:07] kids didn’t really have that. People were like, oh yeah, that’s a bad idea. And during that whole time, we were like, yeah, that’s a bad idea. And I would say no one, no child should be getting trophies. Like, if we’re… Like, if we’re giving trophies for potty training, like, where does it end, you know? Where does the the disposition of learning because things are interesting? No one gave Benjamin Franklin an award. There was no competition, there was no prize ceremony, right? Like, the greatest minds had no… They didn’t have that, they had intrinsic motivation.

Dr. Fox: Wow.

Amelia Gold: So, you know, that’s kind of like, where I am in my thinking, in terms of, like, how I set up structures for learning. It’s like, how do we build intrinsic motivation for children? And for me, arts education is, like, the place to go.

Dr. Fox: So this is a perfect segue. We’ve been talking for a while, and this is awesome. I love this. We’re going to actually have two podcasts. So, Amelia, thank you. Thank you for doing this. And I’m going to have you back on to talk about this again. Thank you so much for joining, and we’re going to pick this up next week, and we’re going to talk specifically about your teaching philosophy, your teaching style, and the specific benefits that we can talk about for the arts education for children. Amelia, thank you so much.

Amelia Gold: Thank you so much, Natie.

Dr. Fox: Thank you for listening to the “Healthful Woman” podcast. To learn more about our podcast, please visit our website at www.healthfulwoman.com. That’s healthfulwoman.com. If you have any questions about this podcast, or any other topic you would like us to address, please feel free to email us at HW@healthfulwoman.com. Have a great day.

The information discussed in “Healthful Woman” is intended for educational uses only, and does not replace medical care from your physician. “Healthful Woman” is meant to expand your knowledge of women’s health, and does not replace ongoing care from your regular physician or gynecologist. We encourage you to speak with your doctor about specific diagnoses and treatment options for an effective treatment plan.


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