“Shaindie’s Birth Story: Retold!”

Dr. Fox: Welcome to today’s episode of Healthful Woman, a podcast designed to explore topics in women’s health at all stages of life. I’m your host, Dr. Nathan Fox, an OB-GYN and maternal fetal medicine specialist practicing in New York City. At Healthful Woman, I speak with leaders in the field to help you learn more about women’s health, pregnancy, and wellness. Shaindie, welcome back to the podcast. This time, face to face, mano a mano, in person.

Shaindie: How are you doing?

Dr. Fox: I’m doing terrific. It’s nice to see you. It’s always nice to see you. We’ve known each other a long time and you are the first person on this podcast to come back and re-tell a birth story. So not just tell a birth story, but tell it again to retell it. We learned that your previous birth stories, nowhere to be found.

Shaindie: It was on the phone, so it was like fuzzy a little bit.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, it was on the phone. We were different time zones, different countries. It was a different time in our lives. So it’s nice to see you.

Shaindie: Nice to see you always.

Dr. Fox: So we’re going to talk back, I guess, we’ll go all the way back to first one, first pregnancy. So when you told the birth story, this was in, I have it’s 2021. That’s when it dropped. So we’re now in 2024, I believe. So it dropped three years ago. And at the time, you were talking about your loss that you had in another country, you were talking about it from that country at the same time. And then we talked about the following pregnancy leading to your oldest daughter in 2020, right, who was at the time a year old. And subsequent to that, you have another daughter who’s now a year old.

Shaindie: Son.

Dr. Fox: What did I say?

Shaindie: Daughter.

Dr. Fox: Correct. You had a son who is now a year old. And so we are sort of like parallel, but we’re going to go back and revisit everything.

Shaindie: I remember where I was sitting when we did it. So yeah, I’m hoping that you wouldn’t wake up. Yeah.

Dr. Fox: And I was sitting right here, same chair, but we were using a phone. So tell us a little bit about yourself. We’re going way back to before your pregnancy career began.

Shaindie: Before my pregnancy career began. Well, I’m the oldest of eight. So I definitely have experience reflecting on people having babies and babies in my life. But I had no personal experience with pregnancy. And when I found out that I was pregnant, my first pregnancy, I right away, went into this hypochondriac state. And I was sure something was wrong with my pregnancy. I remember so clearly by my first ultrasound thing to the sonographer, like, “Do you see the placenta?” And she’s looking at me like, “What are you talking about?” And I was just very nervous overall, and it wasn’t warranted. There was no good reason for it, but I was definitely very nervous. And I did from very early on, not feel great. So that was the beginning of my first pregnancy. But what were the odds that [crosstalk 00:03:13] was going to actually not be?

Dr. Fox: Were you like that in general in your life for other medical things or other things in life that you sort of like, you know, prepping yourself for the worst, that type of thing, or was it unique to pregnancy?

Shaindie: So I would say from like, I’m really not a nervous person in general. I would say very laid back. But when it comes to medical things, yes, I was always [crosstalk 00:03:39].

Dr. Fox: Why do you think that is?

Shaindie: I don’t know. Although it’s funny because I am the type, like, I’ll research things that I’m experiencing and I was interested in different medical experiences. If I wasn’t a mom, maybe I’d be a doctor. But yeah, I don’t know. I was just definitely like, on the more nervous side. And then as my pregnancy started to progress and I started getting different hints that something was maybe possibly brewing, I definitely got more nervous, which was, at that point, warranted.

Dr. Fox: Right. So at the time, you’re young. I mean, how old were you at the time?

Shaindie: Very young.

Dr. Fox: Right.

Shaindie: I’m going to say 23 maybe.

Dr. Fox: You’re 23. You’re the oldest of eight siblings, so you don’t have any older sisters who have gone through this. You’re in another country, so you’re not around your mom, your parents. Like, who are you talking to? Who are you turning to? Was it nobody or did you like, just do it over the phone or because, you know, people have questions and just want to talk about things?

Shaindie: So it happened to be that it worked out for me that I come to America in like, a few weeks into my pregnancy and then again, like a few weeks later. So I did get to meet with, I think it was Dr. Golly [SP], but I mean, I did call the nurses if I had a question. And I was definitely like, you know, in the practice here, which is always a comfort for me.

Dr. Fox: Right. Like a satellite member of our practice.

Shaindie: Safe place to rely on. And so, you know, I had a doctor, which it’s just a very different experience, the whole medical system there. And specifically when it comes to pregnancy, most people use midwives and don’t use private doctors.

Dr. Fox: This is in Israel we’re talking about?

Shaindie: Yeah. So most people don’t use private doctors. And even within the private doctors, it’s just a very, very different system overall. And me being nervous, like, I didn’t trust anyone. So I should be able to trust you guys. But so I didn’t really have necessarily anyone there. I didn’t have an older sister. I didn’t have my mom. I didn’t have any real family that was experienced. And even like within my friends, I didn’t really have anyone that I could rely on with like, questions or anything.

Dr. Fox: Plus, they’re all going to be about your age. How many kids do they have, one?

Shaindie: Right.

Dr. Fox: Right. And so it’s just whatever.

Shaindie: [crosstalk 00:06:07] experience.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. Well, they have their own one, maybe two kids. Like, if it went well, they’d be like, “Oh, I don’t know.”

Shaindie: Exactly. I kind of became the person at this point now that like, whenever anyone has any pregnancy related anything…

Dr. Fox: Right. So there you are, you are the doctor.

Shaindie: Yeah. I got away scot-free with medical school.

Dr. Fox: Fair. All right. Good. But you know, the problem is you bill these people for this advice. It’s free. All right. You’re a free doctor. That’s good to know. If you’re in Israel, find Shaindie, the free doctor.

Shaindie: So then I wasn’t feeling great. I was in America, summertime and I had a lot of pressure on my back. And I kept saying, “I feel like the baby is pushing down.” I kept saying, “I feel like it’s climbing out.”

Dr. Fox: And how far along were you this time?

Shaindie: I would say 18 weeks when I really started feeling that. I had already a few weeks before that, that I wasn’t feeling great. But I’ve come in here and we checked and everything was great. Again, 18 weeks, I came in. We did an anatomy scan and everything was great. I went back to Israel right after that appointment and moved apartments the day I came back to Israel and didn’t have air conditioning that day. And I was really not feeling great. And then I started getting very nauseous. My stomach was hurting me a lot and I had a day of vomiting basically.

Dr. Fox: And this is in the summer, right?

Shaindie: This is in the summer, the dead of the summer there.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. And it’s for those who may not know, it’s hot, Israel in the summer.

Shaindie: It almost gets hotter before it gets cooler. So, yeah. Like right now, August time when it starts cooling off here a little bit, it’s when it’s at the peak there. So it was really hot. I did not have air conditioning for that day. We were waiting for it to be installed and I was vomiting a whole day. And I ended up going into the hospital for fluids. I couldn’t hold down an ounce of water. And I ended up doing a sonogram there just to make sure everything was okay with the baby. Everything was good. And then about a week later, I was still having that pressure that I’ve been feeling all along. And I was nervous from the whole vomiting experience that maybe it did cause something to progress, even though at the time, I had done a sonogram and everything looked okay. But just to be safe, I went in for an appointment and I checked and everything was fine. So in retrospect, I had that to reflect on, like, to see how things progressed or didn’t progress. Like, everything was okay at that point, which was a week after this whole vomiting experience.

And then three days later, I think it was, I was sitting in my apartment, maybe making dinner or whatever, nothing unusual. And I started feeling something that was definitely different. I started having contractions. I started timing them at that point. And they were like, 20 minutes apart or so. Now that I know a little bit more about giving birth, like, 20 minutes apart doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It was definitely feeling unusual for me and something different. And after 20 minutes apart, they were definitely progressing and getting more painful and getting closer together and to the point when I was uncomfortable and I was standing, I felt like I had to sit down. So at that point, I called my doctor and he said to meet him in the hospital. So I didn’t even feel like a sense of urgency at all. My husband was out. I waited until he came home. I didn’t even bother calling him. And then when he came home, we hopped in a cab and we head to the hospital.

Dr. Fox: It’s also unusual in Israel that your doctor would meet you in the hospital, right?

Shaindie: Yeah.

Dr. Fox: Like, for most people in the system, you may or may not have a doctor you see for your visits. And then when you go to the hospital, it’s just like a new set of people. Like, go to the hospital, they’ll take care of you. They don’t know you. You don’t know them. But it’s a system, like, whatever. It’s not like it doesn’t work. It’s just very different.

Shaindie: It’s definitely different. So this doctor was like, you know, specifically a private doctor that I would call on his cell phone and let him know I’m in labor and he was supposed to meet me in the hospital. So we had gone there and it’s funny because this doctor’s, I think he was Russian or whatever and his English is not so great. I guess like, you know, Russian or Hebrew, you know. He does an ultrasound. And he looks to me and he says zero survival. I’m like…

Dr. Fox: That’s it?

Shaindie: Like, okay, can you tell me something? Like, you know, I heard the heartbeat. I saw there was a baby there. What does that mean? So he tells me that basically it’s inevitable. And he said the baby is aborting itself, the terminology he was using, and I’m going to give birth now.

Dr. Fox: And you’re how far at this time, 20, 22?

Shaindie: So I was 225 days. So I don’t know about how in America, but I know that in Israel they won’t do any like, heroic action before 24 weeks. So, you know, if the baby was born and needed resuscitation, they wouldn’t do.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, I don’t know if that’s true now. It might be 23 weeks. I don’t know, but somewhere in that range.

Shaindie: This is also a few years ago.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, 22 weeks.

Shaindie: They were not going to do anything. And the doctor wanted me to take Pitocin at the time. I didn’t feel comfortable with that. I kind of felt like, you never know.

Dr. Fox: Right. It happens on its own, it happens.

Shaindie: Until it does happen on its own, why would anyone want to accelerate something that I don’t want to happen? So the doctor left at that point. It’s funny. I think the last time we recorded this, I was still like, angry at the doctor kind of for leaving at that point. The way I felt in the post-partum period after that pregnancy was very much like the doctor abandoned me. Basically, I was pretty much, for all practical purposes, left in triage with nobody, no one taking care of me. And it happens to be that, you know, Israelis love babies like everyone says. I know from anyone who’s had positive experiences, which is many people I know, who’s had positive experiences in Israel, like they love babies, they love delivering babies. I haven’t had a personal negative experience. So it doesn’t necessarily reflect the maternity ward in general.

Dr. Fox: Right. It’s also very different because you’re there. You’re pregnant, delivering. That’s different. You’re miscarrying, essentially. You’re delivering a baby that’s not going to survive.

Shaindie: Exactly.

Dr. Fox: And so it’s like, what do they do with you? And so, like, obviously, there is a way to do it that’s hopefully, you know, kinder and gentler and like a little bit… But all right, that didn’t happen. You know, it didn’t happen.

Shaindie: So he had left at that point. And it was me, my husband in triage, basically. And at some point, my father-in-law has lots of different connections in Israel. And he called a few different people who were involved in the hospital. And they sent people down. And I had a midwife come in special. She was incredible. And she basically, like, more for the handholding than anything else really, everything was progressing like as a normal birth. I went from 4 centimeters to 10 centimeters to ultimately giving birth. And they ended up having to call the doctor on call because at some point, I wasn’t contracting anymore. But ultimately, I gave birth and the baby, you know, passed, I would say, probably a minute or two before. Like, throughout the whole labor, the baby was okay. And then I would say within the last minute or two, that’s when it ended. And that was it for that pregnancy.

Dr. Fox: Right. When you delivered the baby, the baby was a boy, right?

Shaindie: It was a boy, yeah.

Dr. Fox: Did you hold him? Was that a discussion? Was that something you’re trying to figure out whether you would or wouldn’t? Because some people do, some people don’t in that circumstance.

Shaindie: Yeah, it’s actually interesting. When I was in labor, I totally had the foresight to think about this. It’s just interesting how things play out. But my very close friend had had a stillbirth, I would say, about six months before, and she had held her baby and she was really in the grieving period still. And she was talking about it a lot. And it’s even interesting that she was talking about it because she’s a private person. So she was talking about it a lot with me. And I felt like based on her experience, I didn’t really want to hold the baby. And my mother also had a stillbirth. And I knew that she did hold the baby and I wanted her insight. So, I had my husband call her while I was in labor. And basically, her opinion and suggestion was, if there’s anything you think you slightly want to do, you should so that you don’t ever regret. But just like, follow your gut. If you feel like you really don’t, there’s nothing wrong with that. And if you feel like maybe you do, you’re nervous, go with it because you don’t want to have regret.

Dr. Fox: Right. That’s good advice.

Shaindie: Yeah. And basically, I really strongly did not want to. I did not want to connect to the baby. I did not want to be emotionally stuck on that pregnancy. Like, I just wanted to have another baby already. Like, I really just wanted to have a baby. So for me, my immediate reaction was like, close this chapter. Let’s move on, you know, which is funny because it’s [inaudible 00:15:11] of me. But that’s what I thought in the moment.

Dr. Fox: And listen, people, there’s no good way to process this. Like, it’s a horrible loss. People process losses differently. And it’s not going to be the same thing for two different people.

Shaindie: Exactly.

Dr. Fox: And you have to go with your gut. You know yourself better than anyone knows you. So someone telling you this is what you should do, maybe they’re right, maybe they’re wrong. But you, saying to yourself, this is what I should do, has a much higher chance of being right. You can also be wrong, right? Who knows? There’s always regret in life. But it’s there isn’t a good way to do something. How could you get through this in a good way? Horrible. You know, the whole thing is horrible.

Shaindie: Like, I mean, a baby that early could be scary looking. I didn’t want to be waking up middle of the night…

Dr. Fox: Like, nightmares.

Shaindie: …thinking about this baby and reflecting on it. And I also didn’t want that when I did eventually have living children, I didn’t want to ever line up my births. I didn’t want to feel like holding this baby, holding that baby. Like, I wanted that to be almost like a miscarriage.

Dr. Fox: Right. Understood.

Shaindie: That’s what I wanted to name it.

Dr. Fox: Right. So you have the delivery and then what happens? You just go home, like, what happens afterwards because you don’t stay for two or three days, right?

Shaindie: So, I mean, they would have wanted to keep me a little bit longer, but I was out. I was like, get me home. My parents were landing in Israel. They hopped on a plane as soon as they heard what was happening. They were landing in Israel. So as soon as they would let me out of the hospital, I was running right out of there. And thank God everything was good. And I actually have an interesting thing. I don’t know if I ever discussed this with you, but in Israel, my blood type is not positive. And in America, my blood type is positive. So they wouldn’t let me out until I got the RhoGAM shot. But I didn’t want to get it until I spoke to you guys because I didn’t know if there was harm in getting it. So definitely takes a few hours [crosstalk 00:17:05].

Dr. Fox: Yeah, that’s a separate… Like, the positive or negative, is whether you have this thing called the D. And there’s like a big D or there’s no D. Some people have a form of it. It’s not that in some countries, yes, some countries no, it’s various blood banks can pick it up and various blood banks don’t.

Shaindie: I must say that it’s more sensitive blood bank here that they’re able to pick it up as a positive.

Dr. Fox: Even here, you’ll sometimes have two different labs, two different blood banks. One calls you positive, one calls you negative. So we have that even within the U.S. that happens. So I don’t think it’s Israel versus the U.S. It’s that, that happens all the time. And we know what that is. And you technically don’t need the RhoGAM, that’s known. But the blood banks, they still want to give it to you, whatever. But it’s not harmful to get it if you don’t need it. It’s okay.

Shaindie: So I had to wait until you guys opened to get that. And then I was out of the hospital and that was it. And then I started, I guess, you know, that grieving period. And it was a really dark period for me. It was really a lot. I speak to people all the time who have, you know, late pregnancy losses. And I speak to them usually like, right after. And I’m always, like, forward. This is really a challenging time for you. Like, it’s going to be really, really hard. It’s really hard.

Dr. Fox: And it takes a long time.

Shaindie: And it takes a long time. And I’m lucky that for me, I knew very strongly that I needed to have another baby to be okay. And I’m lucky that it worked out that way and that I did get pregnant pretty soon afterwards.

Dr. Fox: By choice. I mean, you felt part of your healing had to be to get pregnant.

Shaindie: Yeah. And it’s interesting because I know that people feel differently. Like, you know, some people may feel like they need the time to sit in that pregnancy and that loss and give that baby the focus, maybe, it deserves. Different people have different ways of healing. But I knew myself and I knew that I needed to be a mother, and I was determined.

Dr. Fox: Right. It’s different per person. It’s different per experience. And sometimes it’s different because you didn’t have children yet. And so, you know, there’s nothing else you’re focusing on, really. You only focus on the loss. Now, it doesn’t mean if you have children at a loss, it’s not equally painful. But you also have to, like…your kids, they’re waking up every morning. So you have to give them breakf-… So it’s just a different thing versus just you and the thoughts and you may feel differently, you know.

Shaindie: Right. It’s also interesting because when you don’t have children, you don’t know that like, a pregnancy that you lose in the middle of the pregnancy is not the love you have for that baby or the feeling you have for that baby. You don’t know that it’s not as great as the feeling you’re going to have for your 3-year-old that you’re making breakfast for every morning and getting your energy to and that you really have a relationship with. To me, it almost felt like my child died.

Dr. Fox: Right. Yeah.

Shaindie: That was the feeling because I didn’t know otherwise. And it’s interesting because as soon as I held my living baby and, you know, had a relationship with my baby, actually, that was also a big part of the healing process for me. And again, like, I’m only reflecting on my own experience. I’m sure there are people who feel a much stronger connection with the baby that they lose. But personally, because I didn’t have children, like, it was just such a focus. And it was like, right now, [inaudible 00:20:38] and I lost the baby. Like, that was basically my identity at the time and the way I felt about my life.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. No, I think that’s fair. And it’s again, one of the things we tell people who lose children, again, whether it’s 20 weeks or it’s 30 weeks or even after they’re born or whatever it is that, you know, different people, again, they go through life differently with that. And for some people, that child is one of their children, part of their family. It’s sort of like, in a certain sense, in the family photo. They say, like, I have 4 children, 1 of whom I lost at 24 weeks. And that’s for some people, the way they view their family, and other people, it’s not. And there isn’t a right or wrong. And it’s not like, having a baby, replaces the one you lost. It doesn’t work like that. It’s just for you, you know, it changed your identity from I’m a person who lost a baby to I’m a mother. And you didn’t really feel like the mother until you had a living child. There’s other people feel like a mother when they have a child they lost. And that’s again, there’s no right or wrong here. It’s just how your brain and your emotions work through these things.

Shaindie: Really, I almost felt like a mother, but I didn’t feel I got the credit as the mother. So I felt like people would be talking about their birth or their labor or the pregnancy, and I’d have to be like, “You know, in my pregnancy…” You know, like give myself the credit of being the mom. And almost like, I needed to have the baby and be the mother in a sense, or as universally understood, I’m a mother, not just because I carried a baby until I feel like a mother. It’s all interesting. I know that so many people process differently, especially like at this point where I really have spoken to so many different people. And we’ve hosted support groups in our home and had all different people with different experiences and people really, really have so many different ways of processing and there’s no like, right or wrong way. But yeah, in my experience, I knew I needed to have a baby and be a mother. And I knew that would help me in a sense, close that first chapter and give me the closure that I needed.

Dr. Fox: Now, I don’t know, you tell me, were you able to be supportive to others before you had your living child? I mean, in that time period between having the loss, processing it to some degree and then having your baby afterwards, were you just like, I am dark and I’m focused until this happens, or were you already speaking to people who are undergoing losses?

Shaindie: I think I had this like, adrenaline and I was drinking my own Kool-Aid, kind of. Like, although I was feeling dark, you know, when it was late at night and dark in my apartment and dark outside and whatever, it was definitely very, very painful time for me. But the way that I was dealing with it, from an actionable perspective, was kind of like, talking positive. Like, “I’m okay. We’re going to be okay. This was meant to be, you know, we’re so grateful. You know, thank God I’m healthy and, you know, we’re great.” And I had the best husband. Like, I was focusing on all the things that were positive. And I was trying very much to be in a positive frame of mind, like maybe, you know, manifesting, I guess. I didn’t want in any way to be pitied. And I didn’t want to pity myself either. So I was trying very hard to be positive. And I think also, my way of being positive was also a little bit by disconnecting. So I was kind of like, “No. I’m good that, you know, that pregnancy is over now.” Like, that was kind of the way that I was processing at the time and dealing with it. And I had to deal a little bit more later on, like, once that time actually did pass.

And actually, after I had my daughter, I did process things from a different perspective once I was able to. But I think at that point, I was actually able to. Like, I think originally, I needed to be able to disconnect and be in that positive frame of mind and kind of like, just work on moving forward. So I did speak to people. Like I said, my best friend had had a loss prior. And a few people that I know, also had right around that time…someone who lives near me, a good friend of my family’s. And we had like, our little club, you know, we were talking to each other a lot. And I felt like we understood each other and we were all kind of experiencing very similar things, even if we each had our own ways of [crosstalk 00:25:20].

Dr. Fox: Right. The sad little club.

Shaindie: Exactly. So, really once I was in a better frame of mind, was I actually looking to speak to people and happy to speak with people. But definitely, after everything that I was exposed to at that time, I was in a very positive frame of mind of trying to work through it and move forward.

Dr. Fox: Tell me about the next pregnancy.

Shaindie: So then I got pregnant. It was like, six weeks later. Very quick. And I think my grief just turned into anxiety.

Dr. Fox: You don’t say.

Shaindie: I was literally just a mess. I started off the pregnancy in Israel and my plan was that I think it was 16 weeks, I was going to come into America and continue the pregnancy here. So I landed in America and then COVID broke out.

Dr. Fox: That’s correct.

Shaindie: Literally, I remember on our flight in from America, seeing people wiping down their seats. And we were like, “Okay. Those weirdoes.”

Dr. Fox: Yeah. Why is that person wearing a mask?

Shaindie: Right. And we were hearing about this virus, China-something. And we were like, “Okay. These people think this is serious.” And then we landed in America and literally within two days, anyone I know who was in Israel was on the road back for COVID to get out of the country.

Dr. Fox: Right. Because they were going to shut the borders down.

Shaindie: They were shutting things down. And, you know, a lot of people I know in Israel also are from America originally. So they were just coming back here. And my parents were in Florida with my grandparents at the time and came back two days later. And I guess COVID from Florida where my grandparents apparently had it, to New York. And we all had COVID very, very early on. I remember me and my siblings being like, don’t tell anyone. They can’t know that we have COVID.

Dr. Fox: Right. That’s probably the best thing that happened to you, to get it early on.

Shaindie: I got it early on, for sure. So that was, you know, just in the middle of my pregnancy and I had COVID. I was COVID positive. I think I was one of the first in the office. At that point, our plan was that we were going to just monitor things and see how things evolve and then treat accordingly. We didn’t want to assume that something like, you know, what did or didn’t happen in the last pregnancy was…

Dr. Fox: Right. Now, I think we did give you progesterone, though automatically.

Shaindie: Yeah. We did do progesterone automatically. At that point, we were doing the…

Dr. Fox: The cervical lengths and everything.

Shaindie: The shots.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, the injections.

Shaindie: Injections. And then 20 weeks, 5 days, I came in here. I remember the night before, like, really not feeling good and thinking, “Okay, I’m in labor or whatever. I’m having this baby. It’s over.” But I can’t go to the hospital because I had already gone to triage at some point and it was, you know, during COVID. And to go in myself with my husband in the middle of the night and you don’t know how long you’re going to be stuck in triage. I was like, pushing it off, pushing it off. And I knew I had an appointment in the morning. So I was like, “Okay. In the morning, we’re going to get in the car and we’re going to go. And I can’t think about this until then.” And morning came and during COVID, it was a very quick drive, which was very nice. And came here and I was doing the cervical lengths. And I, at that point, was already basically a sonographer. So I’m a doctor and a sonographer.

Dr. Fox: You’re very educated. Yeah.

Shaindie: And I saw on the screen, like, I was able to tell right away my cervix was short. I was frantically texting my husband, like, “Oh, my gosh [crosstalk 00:28:55].”

Dr. Fox: Because he’s probably outside in the car.

Shaindie: He was outside. I remember, like, my legs starting to shake. Like, I was feeling real panic. And then this was like, right before Passover. And I literally remember, like, in the back of my head, hearing you on the phone talking to someone like, “Okay, I have a happy Passover. Oh, I have a sick patient. I have to go.” Basically, I passed out and they called me into the office. And after I put some cold water on my head and whatnot, you brought me to your office. And basically told me at that point, we were going to place a cerclage and head over to the hospital and not expect to be home before that night. So that was the plan. My husband drove me around the corner and we went to the hospital. And it definitely was very challenging that it was COVID era because my husband could not come in with me. And this is after like, a very recent loss. So there was a lot of anxiety. I was also still COVID positive. Even though it was already a couple of weeks later, I was still testing positive. So, you know, the nurses were all like, in hazmat suits, scared to come into my room.

Dr. Fox: And we knew very little at the time, you know, and so they were [crosstalk 00:30:07].

Shaindie: We’re talking the first week of April, 2020. So, yeah. Everyone was very nervous and I basically was there alone, which was which was very challenging. But thank God, the cerclage was placed and everything was good. Baby was good. And I guess the contracting was at a point where we were comfortable enough for me to go home that night. So we went in at like, I think it was early, 9:00 a.m., maybe a little earlier. And at 11:00 p.m., I was on my way home. So that was that.

Dr. Fox: And then how the rest of pregnancy go?

Shaindie: And then the rest of the pregnancy was a lot of on-and-off contracting cervix.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, I know the answer to all these questions.

Shaindie: Cervix was good. Cervix was a little shorter.

Dr. Fox: I lived it.

Shaindie: Exactly. I switched from the progesterone injections to suppositories at one point. And ultimately, I had my cerclage removed at 33 weeks and 5 days.

Dr. Fox: For contractions.

Shaindie: For contractions. And also I think there was a little pressure on the cerclage, maybe a little dilating.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. But at that point, I mean, from 20 weeks when this happened and you’re thinking, I’m losing my baby, to 33 weeks. You’re talking three-plus months. But I imagine it was obviously a very stressful time, right? A lot of anxiety, you know, PTSD. Everything’s coming back. But by the time that happened, my recollection is like, you know, the anxiety sort of diminished because you knew you weren’t losing your baby. You’re not losing your baby anymore. Like, you will or you won’t have a pre-term baby. But you’re in a different ZIP code as the last pregnancy. So every week, it was like…

Shaindie: Another week.

Dr. Fox: All right. This is a little better than last week. And that point, yeah, take it out, whatever.

Shaindie: Basically, like, at 20, 21 weeks, 22 weeks, my father kept saying, “How many weeks?” And I would be like “21.” And he’d be like, “Still 21? It’s going so slow.” And I’m like, “Oh, yeah, for you, it’s going so slow.” And really, like every day I would wake up and I would be like, “Wow. Thank you that we have another day.” Like, I really appreciated every single day of the pregnancy. And every day was a little calmer than the day before. I can’t lie. Basically, every week I Googled 23, baby, what does it look like? What’s the survival rate? And then once I had 28 weeks, I had a certain sense of calm where I knew like, I was over a hump. And then again, from 28 weeks, every week was really like a big deal. And then when I got to that point, the 33 weeks, 5 days, and I was having my cerclage removed, I was like, get the cerclage out. I want to have this baby already. I felt over it at that point.

Dr. Fox: Right. It went out, but you ultimately still stayed pregnant for several more weeks.

Shaindie: I stayed pregnant until 37 and 5 days. And, you know, I definitely contracted throughout my whole pregnancy. It’s funny because every doctor I ever spoke to, told me when you’re in labor, you will know, it will be different. The truth is I really never did. Like, I literally just flew in here at every opportunity. I was like a frequent at the hospital. And I really also wanted to get there before it was like in that, you know, painful moment. So, I was just always flying here. And yeah, ultimately I gave birth, like, you know, pretty full-term.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. What was that like, that birth?

Shaindie: It was incredible. Like, I couldn’t have expected or wanted it to be better than it was. Dr. Shlansky [SP] was awesome and very calm. And it was just like a really ideal, perfect experience. Like, I came in tonight. I got an epidural. I felt nothing.

Dr. Fox: At that time, your husband was able to be with you, right?

Shaindie: Husband, so for birth.

Dr. Fox: Right. For birth, correct. So it was because a little bit later…

Shaindie: I think it was like, once I was admitted, he was able to be in there. So I remember, yeah, I went in. I was admitted. I got my epidural. I went to sleep. I woke up a few hours later and had a baby.

Dr. Fox: That was a very happy day at MFM Associates. It was a happy day. Like, Shaindie had her baby. Everything’s good. Thank God.

Shaindie: [inaudible 00:34:14] So, yeah, basically…

Dr. Fox: My nurses had time to talk to other people. It was great. You know, it was just a big deal. We’re ready. We’re knee-deep in it. And so, it’s an amazing thing for all of us when that happens, you know.

Shaindie: I remember calling the office and the first time that this happened, I think it was Jamie, the nurse, she picked up the phone and she’s like, “Hey, Shaindie…” And I’m like, “Oh, no. She knows my number. This is a problem.” So thankfully, I gave birth and it was a beautiful birth. And I had a healthy baby girl.

Dr. Fox: Amazing.

Shaindie: So that was incredible.

Dr. Fox: And then you did it again.

Shaindie: And then we did it again. And like, really going into my second pregnancy, everything was…I’m sorry, my third pregnancy. Everything was so different just because I knew I could do it. I knew that like, my body was capable of it. And I kind of like had a plan in place. I knew this time I was going to have a cerclage just early as intervention, like preventative.

Dr. Fox: It was sort of like all the same emotions divided by 10. You know, like a little bit of anxiety, just much, much less. Yeah.

Shaindie: And like, you know, we were here in America again for that pregnancy. And I kind of like, knew the ropes much more. So everything was just much calmer for me. I knew like, a little bit also had to follow my body and know what’s normal for me with my baseline versus, you know, maybe for some people, if they would feel contractions every eight minutes or so for them, that would mean that they’re in labor. But I knew for me, like, that could be normal. And I had all the same intervention. I had my cerclage placed. Then I had the progesterone and came to the doctor very, very often. [inaudible 00:35:50] I really wasn’t working so much at that time, so this was a full-time job. And ultimately, actually, at the exact same time, my pregnancy, I had my cerclage removed…

Dr. Fox: Yes, same thing happened.

Shaindie: …exact same time gave birth.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. The same thing, had to get it removed at 34 and delivered at 37.

Shaindie: Exactly.

Dr. Fox: Wow. Amazing. So here you are now looking back on all this. What do you take away from your whole story, your amazing story?

Shaindie: So I think, like, I mentioned a few times, I really learned that everyone has their own personal experience and process differently. And even at different points, as time goes on, I feel like I process things differently also. Like, even as I’m repeating the story now, you know, it feels much less intense to me as it did back then. But then there’s also certain things that maybe I’m able to process more now than at that time, I kind of like, disconnected from. So I know that everyone processes things differently. But in my experience, like, life will be okay. Like, I was able to live again and be happy. And that whole dark time in my life, like, that was really, really challenging for me. Like, you know, really, thank God I’m not there and I have my healthy babies. And one person…I remember someone saying, like, “You know, I had something similar. And now I have a healthy baby.” Like, nice for you to have your healthy baby. But like, I need to have my own.

Dr. Fox: I don’t…

Shaindie: Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, yeah, I do have my healthy babies now, and I am very, very grateful for that. But I also know that, that time in my life, I learned so much about myself and about how I process things and about how, like, when people say silly things, they don’t really know better. They don’t know what to say or how to be with you, because, like I said, everyone’s processing things differently and wants different things from people around them. So, one person might want someone to feel sorry for them and to make them dinner, whereas, I was so not appreciative of someone pitying me in any way. And I just wanted to be normal. So, when someone says something, you know, if I’m going through something or someone’s going through something and it’s challenging time for them and someone says something about like, “Why did they say that?” Like, it’s because they don’t better. They don’t know what you want or what you need from them.

Dr. Fox: It’s from a place of love, even if it makes you feel worse.

Shaindie: Exactly. And like I said, also, the light comes again. Even before I had my baby, every day, it was very, very hard then. And every day, week, month, whatever, that went on, I got busy with different things and I was just in a better, happier place. And I guess that’s my takeaway, like, just for myself personally. I know that you could be going through something challenging, but, you know, life moves forward and chapters close, new chapters open. And I’m very grateful to be where I am today. And, yeah.

Dr. Fox: Amazing. Shaindie, thank you so much. What a great story. We’re really happy for you. And yeah, I think your perspective on this is really important. And a lot of people who listen to this and either themselves are going through or have gone through something like this, every story is different, obviously. I’m sure it’ll be very helpful to them, but also people who don’t go through this to maybe have a little bit more of an understanding of what others are going through and what others are feeling when they go through this so that we can better support them or understand them at least. And so, I really appreciate it.

Shaindie: I can’t give advice to anyone who went through something like this, because like you said, everyone has different experiences. So advice is like, not really warranted. But to people who are the friends or the, you know, the people who are watching someone experience something like this, the best advice is to follow their lead. If you feel like someone wants to talk to you, to talk, but if you feel like they don’t, they don’t. And if someone, you know, needs to be a little emotional or needs to share a little bit of their story or be taken care of, just follow their lead. Like, I think that’s like a big one.

Dr. Fox: Great advice. Thanks for coming in, Shaindie.

Shaindie: Thank you.

Dr. Fox: Thank you for listening to the “Healthful Woman Podcast.” To learn more about our podcast, please visit our website at www.healthfulwoman.com. That’s H-E-A-L-T-H-F-U-L-W-O-M-A-N.com. If you have any questions about this podcast or any other topic you would like us to address, please feel free to email us at hw@healthfulwoman.com. Have a great day. The information discussed in Healthful Woman is intended for educational uses only. It does not replace medical care from your physician. Healthful Woman is meant to expand your knowledge of women’s health and does not replace ongoing care from your regular physician or gynecologist. We encourage you to speak with your doctor about specific diagnoses and treatment options for an effective treatment plan.