“Ruthie’s Story: Postpartum Depression, Removing the Stigma”

Dr. Fox: Welcome to today’s episode of “Healthful Woman,” a podcast designed to explore topics in women’s health at all stages of life. I’m your host, Dr. Nathan Fox, an OBGYN and maternal fetal medicine specialist, practicing in New York City. At “Healthful Woman,” I speak with leaders in the field to help you learn more about women’s health, pregnancy, and wellness.

Ruthie, welcome to the podcast. How you doing today?

Ruthie: I’m great. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Fox: So, this is very exciting. I love when people volunteer to tell their stories. And you reached out through a mutual friend, and said that you wanted to tell your story, which I really appreciate. And I just want to start off with, why? Why did you reach out?

Ruthie: Yeah. I mean, first of all, shout out to Gabrielle [SP] because if I didn’t give her a shout out, I’m sure I will not hear the end of it.

Dr. Fox: She is a force of nature. I hear you. Okay.

Ruthie: She’s going to love this. Yeah. I mean, it was mostly her idea, but also, honestly, I just felt that, unfortunately, the discussion of postpartum depression and just maternal mental health in general is really not spoken about as much as it can and should be. And slowly over time, I’d just become more comfortable sharing my story and in the hopes that other people can relate, and just to normalize it and feel less alone. And that’s why I’m here.

Dr. Fox: Well, I really appreciate it. I agree with you. I think, anyone who listens to this podcast would say, obviously, I agree with you on that. That’s just such a huge topic that does not get talked about as much as it should, related to pregnancy and delivery, and the health of the mother. People always think, you know, the physical health, let’s say, you know, but they really either don’t appreciate or don’t want to appreciate how significant mental health is before, during, and after pregnancy, and how it’s not a given that it’s going to go okay even for people without a history of any issues with mental health. And I don’t know. I really still don’t understand why people don’t talk about it as much if it’s because of a stigma maybe or just they’re uncomfortable in general about mental health, but that’s the reality. People don’t talk about it as much as they should.

Ruthie: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I don’t know. I feel like we’ve done…we as a society, I guess, have done a better job about talking about it a little bit, stigma-wise, in comparison to, let’s say, my parents’ generation or even my grandparents, you know, where it was just like, oh, baby blues or, you know, it’s just…it’s really hard after you give birth or things like that. And now, we’re kind of more so naming it and discussing it, but there’s, for sure, you know, work to be done. And it’s an ongoing battle.

Dr. Fox: You know, it’s interesting. I agree. I mean, I think of, you know, what my peers are like and what we were like when we were having kids, and obviously, my parents’ generation. But when I look at my kids’ generation, I think, in general, mental health is discussed much more. Meaning, kids nowadays are much more open about mental health, about their own mental health, you know, issues about their friends. They’re able to talk about it. They have sort of a language around it. You know, there’s so much less shame about the idea of seeing a therapist or taking medications or whatever it is. And I agree that we’ve gotten so much better.

But I don’t know how much that’s translated into maternal mental health, like, you know, postpartum, let’s say, specifically. I think, a lot of these same kids when they become young adults and they start having kids, I just see that something shifts, and maybe it’s just because they feel like, well, now that I’m having a kid, it should be different. And I don’t know, but I’m not sure if it’s translated as well into this arena as it has in sort of general mental health. I’m not sure. Have you seen that yourself?

Ruthie: Yeah. I mean, I hear what you’re saying. I feel like it’s a lot of… Like I said, there’s a lot of work to for sure be done. I think, the word that comes to mind for me is the should, which I feel like is used a lot, not that I’m a therapist, but used a lot in therapy of…especially when it comes to being a mom, let’s say. I should love my baby right away. I should feel connected. I should, you know, X, Y, and Z. So, I feel like a lot of that is still work to be done when it comes to…yeah, when it comes to becoming a mom and mental health in that capacity, specifically, for sure.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. I think that’s really insightful. I guess, you know, for kids, let’s say you’re a teenager or whatever it is, and you’re struggling with anxiety or depression or, you know, whatever. I don’t think teenagers are maybe to the same prevalence, like I should, you know, have great social interactions, and I should feel good every day. You know, maybe they do, but I think it’s not the same weight as having a baby. Like, oh, my God, you know, I’m having a baby, I should be perfect at this. I should, you know, be super mom. I should be really connected with my baby and, you know, want to do this again as soon as humanly possible. And I just think that for whatever reason, those expectations, whether they’re external put on people or whether just internal people put on themselves are very weighty and come, you know, head to head with mental health all the time.

Ruthie: Yeah. I think that’s also a really good point, just that extra layer of responsibility. I think, when you become a parent of, you know, you’re caring for yourself as much as, like you said, a teen, like I should, I don’t know, make a grade. I should be invited to parties or whatever. And now, it’s like, all of a sudden, there’s this external being that you and your partner have a shared responsibility for. But, yeah, you feel this extra weight of, like you said, needing to be like super mom, and be able to do it all, and provide for them.

Dr. Fox: Wow. So, really great intro to what we’re going to talk about. I guess, before we begin with your story, maybe just give our listeners a sense of, you know, who you are, what you do. I don’t know where you’re from. Those types of things. Just, you know, overview of Ruthie.

Ruthie: Sure. So, I’m Ruthie, 30 years old. I’m originally from Long Island, and I now live in Jersey. I’ve been working as a PA in a New York City hospital for the past two and a bit years, minus some maternity leave. I specialize in hematology-oncology. And, yeah, I’m a mom also. And I have two girls. It’s crazy to think about, but almost four-and-a-half-year-old named Kira [SP], and my baby who’s going to be one next week. Wow. That’s just weird to wrap my head around.

Dr. Fox: Fair. All right. Excellent. And you’re married. And what does your husband do?

Ruthie: Yeah. Forgot about my husband [crosstalk 00:07:14].

Dr. Fox: No, you didn’t.

Ruthie: I’m sorry.

Dr. Fox: I interrupted you to bring him to the forefront, but you definitely didn’t forget about him.

Ruthie: No. He’s going to come up probably a lot throughout this also. So, my husband’s name is Ari [SP]. We met almost 10 years ago at this point. We’ve been married for eight years. And he works as an actuarial analyst in healthcare. So, we’re both healthcare people. Opposite sides, I guess, technically.

Dr. Fox: Opposite sides of the team. All right. I understand.

Ruthie: A little bit. Yeah.

Dr. Fox: So, I guess, knowing that background, tell us about where you were in life coming into your pregnancy, your first pregnancy with Kira, and then how that pregnancy itself went.

Ruthie: Yeah. So, I had like a little bit of history of mental health stuff when I was in my early 20s. So, I, in the back of my head, thought, you know, I heard of postpartum depression, knew it was a possibility, it’s fairly common. So, I was in PA school. We kind of got…what’s it called? Delayed because of COVID. We were supposed to graduate…I believe it was the end of 2020. Yes. Okay. So, when we…we started rotations literally January 2020, and I remember, yeah, it was excellent timing. And then around March, you know, when the pandemic essentially hit, we didn’t…our program didn’t necessarily remove us from our rotations. We kind of just started dropping like flies. And then I think, by April, once they realized, you know, what was going on, we kind of had to be delayed. We went back maybe June.

And then once there was more of a clear end in sight, you know, we started talking about…me and my husband started talking about wanting to start a family. Been married for, at that point, over three years and, you know, I was finishing up school, I was going to start working. And, yeah. So, we decided we would start trying. Thank God I got pregnant fairly quickly. Didn’t have complications with that. And then overall, I was feeling okay. I found out I was pregnant November of 2020, I want to say. And I had maybe, I don’t know, one or two rotations left. We ended up graduating around March time via Zoom. Think about the world at the time. And I took my boards in June. Yeah, I took my boards in June. And so, Kira was born at the end of July.

Granted, in May…so, during…I guess, that would be my third trimester, I started to feel, I want to say, off a little bit. But I just chalked it up to, you know, I’m studying to take my boards to be certified as a PA. And, you know, I…yeah, I am a little bit scared to become a mom, and the change that comes with it. But it kind of just slowly became more and more about kind of this isn’t me, and something feels wrong, and I don’t know exactly what. And then, yeah, it kind of just… Even after I gave birth, you know, the first couple of weeks are kind of just a blur, I think, for anybody. You know, no sleep, no…you know, just a whole shift of identity. And in the beginning, I was just like, okay, we’re literally in the trenches here. Just get through this, and I’ll get used to it, and everything will be fine.

Dr. Fox: When you were pregnant, you said that in your past, you had sort of a history of mental health issues, so to speak. Was it something you thought about during your pregnancy? Like, hey, I’m at risk for this or, you know, I need to be mindful of this or something you spoke about with your OB, or was it sort of something in the past view that it didn’t even…you didn’t even think to talk about it during the course of the pregnancy until maybe the very end?

Ruthie: No. So, even beforehand, I remember going and speaking to the OB, and saying, you know, I know the facts here, I know I’m at risk. What’s the story with, for instance, taking medication? I know different OBs have different approaches, more conservative or…you know? And I was on medicine. I was on medication during pregnancy. So, I had a therapist.

Dr. Fox: So, the OB was supportive of that?

Ruthie: Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Fox: Oh, okay. Got it. Great. All right.

Ruthie: Which is great. Yeah.

Dr. Fox: So, after you delivered, how soon did you realize this is going downhill?

Ruthie: I think it’s more… It’s hard to say, to pinpoint exactly. And I even remember, for this second pregnancy, you know, trying to use the data, if you will, of pinpoint when exactly things happened. I think I, if I remember correctly, also Ari was, you know, kind of able to tell more easily as an external person watching in. Because when you’re…you know, when you’re the one going through it, it’s hard to really tease out exactly what’s happening and what’s in your mind versus reality, unfortunately.

So, I think it was also…he had, if I’m not mistaken, like six weeks of paternity leave, both times around because he was at the same job. And, you know, those first six weeks, he was also there with me, you know. It was just the two of us with the baby, amazing. You know, he was able to do the night stuff for me and give me a break. And then I think…at first, I thought it was just, you know, similarly, like the anticipation of him going back to work. And then, you know, at that point I had taken my boards, but I wasn’t, you know, actively job searching yet because I just had a baby and I just…the reality hit me of, oh, okay, this is me and Kira. And until when, you know? What’s the next step here? So, I would say, roughly around the 8 to 12-week mark, give or take.

Dr. Fox: Mm-hmm. And did you…were you sharing any of this with anybody else in your life, or was it just you and Ari, and your therapist?

Ruthie: So, at that point, I also got my parents involved because we needed help, honestly. I think, ahead of time, we were living…at the time, we were living in an apartment in the city. And the plan was always to go to my parents’ after I gave birth for a week or two, just…you know, they had a house, they had the space, you know? I feel like, typically, that’s…a lot of people do that. So, that’s what we did. And then it was kind of like, we went back to the apartment, and things were just not going great. And, you know, my parents were, you know, very involved. So, you know, they kind of knew what was going on, but I don’t know if anybody really fully grasped the extent of it at the time, right when it was happening. You know, it was kind of just a similar situation, like maybe this is just your typical postpartum, and it needs to run its course or, you know, it was kind of not 100% clear what was going on.

Dr. Fox: Right. So, I guess, if you could explain to our listeners sort of from your experience… I can imagine some listeners thinking, well, how…what was happening? How was it different from “typical,” right? Either those listening who’ve had children, who haven’t yet had children. So, how would you explain to someone? What was going on with you and your mental health that was different, that was worse, that was really not well? How would you explain it to others tangibly? What was happening?

Ruthie: Yeah. It’s hard because sometimes they kind of blend together, the two experiences. And also, I feel like the brain does a creepily good job of erasing a lot as a coping mechanism.

Dr. Fox: Like the whole COVID experience, I don’t remember any of it. But, yeah.

Ruthie: Yeah. No, for real, though, it’s like there’s times where I’m just thinking back, randomly, thoughts will come to me or, you know, my dad will say, do you remember when this happened? And I’m just like, no. It’s a little scary, honestly. I genuinely don’t remember all the details, which I guess is a blessing in disguise, if you will. But, yeah. I mean, it was your run-of-the-mill depression symptoms of not wanting to get out of bed, not wanting to eat, not wanting to see people. I mean, my husband took the brunt of the nights. He did all the night feeds. I wouldn’t get up in the middle of the night with him. He just fed her.

And I mean, in hindsight, I did have the foresight, I guess, to know that maybe something like this would happen and, you know, the decision was made not to breastfeed. And I’m happy that we made that decision because that also…not sure how that would have played out, you know, had it being solely on me and he wouldn’t have been able to help. But, yeah. I think just a general disinterest in things.

It was interesting, though, because, you know, there was a lot of comparison, which was hard kind of this time around with Leora [SP] because I don’t know if I was hypervigilant because, you know, I had gone through it the first time. And this time around, it’s like, okay, am I expecting this to happen again? Am I thinking that it’s happening without it actually happening, you know, like over thinking it. And with Leora, I actually, thank God, during my third trimester, felt totally fine. So, there was a small part of me that was like, you’re in the clear. This may not happen again. And, you know, it didn’t have to happen again. So, yeah.

Dr. Fox: So, when this was going on with Kira, how long did that go on for? Were you really not doing well? Are we talking days, weeks, months?

Ruthie: Yeah. It was on and off, you know. The process is so not linear, which does not particularly help because you have a day where you’re like, oh, I actually feel like me again, and look, I am getting up and doing things. And then, you know, a day or two later, you can just be back to, never mind, I don’t actually want to do this anymore. But with Kira, I remember it was also amidst all the Jewish holidays. So, we were just kind of… Because she was born in July. Ari was off for all of August. And then at that point, you were heading into September. And we kind of were just going back and forth between our apartment and my parents’ house because it was all the holidays. So, I think, by the time… And you know, that’s just not a regular routine, extra hands around. And it just was, you know, we were back in our apartment. So, I think it was more by the end of that, she was already, I don’t know, going on three or four months when it was like, okay, something needs to be done. You know, this is…this can’t keep going on.

Dr. Fox: And when you say something needs to be done, what was it? They changed your medication or increased it or something?

Ruthie: So, no. Actually, I have another shout out. I’m not going to say the person’s name, though. But somebody in the community at the time who dropped off a meal early on — so, you know, a week or two after I had given birth — said to me, you seem fine, and I’m not trying to insinuate that anything is wrong. But I just want you to know that there are resources and there is an amazing place called The Motherhood Center of New York if you ever do need it. And that kind of stuck with me in the back of my head. You know, down the line heading into September, October time when, you know, it was still not amazing and we were like, okay, something needs to be done, Ari reminded me. He was like, do you remember that place, you know, that they…that girl mentioned? Maybe we should look into that and see exactly what that entails and if that’s helpful or not.

Dr. Fox: Wow. And so, after you went there, really, things changed.

Ruthie: Yeah. We got in touch with them. I, obviously, begrudgingly at the time because I was, you know…I don’t want to have to do any extra intervention. In my head, I was like, you know, we’ll just let it run its course. I’ll keep taking my medication and keep doing therapy. But at a certain point, it kind of just…that wasn’t cutting it, you know? So, we reached out to them, and they had an intake session with me. And they have an amazing program called…like their day program. So, they have a bunch of different layers to them. They have regular just outpatient therapy. They also have an amazing program called…I think they call it their day program, where it’s more intensive, if you will. And it’s Monday through Friday. Basically, it’s just more like a higher level of care for people who needed it.

And I remember thinking at the time, I don’t need this, which obviously I was in denial, and you know, I actually did need it. And it was…normally, it’s in person and I…for Leora, I did have to go back, and I did it in person. But with Kira, it was 2021. So, it was the still kind of COVID times, and maybe it was the next strain of COVID. Honestly, I don’t even remember, but that was virtual. So, the amazing thing about the in-person, though, is that they have a nursery on site also.

Dr. Fox: Oh. So, you could bring your baby.

Ruthie: Yeah. So, this time around with Leora, I knew, you know, I had someone to give me a break also. You know, they had…yeah. And that was an amazing resource also that I actually didn’t know about the first time around because everything was on Zoom. So, there wasn’t a Zoom nursery, but for this time around, when I went with Leora, it was…yeah, it was amazing.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. I mean, The Motherhood Center is not sponsoring this podcast, but I will say that we work with them a lot. And there’s a lot of really terrific places in our area, but The Motherhood Center is certainly one of them. They’re really, really great. So, that’s amazing. So, knowing this and that this happened and, you know, everything you went through when you were coming up to your second pregnancy with Leora, number one, how hesitant were you to do it again, to go into pregnancy? And then, number two, you obviously did it because you have another kid. During the pregnancy, how fearful were you that it was going to happen again?

Ruthie: Yeah. All very valid question. It was a decision. Ari and I had to, you know, sit down and not [inaudible 00:23:26] talk about it. We waited. You know, Kira was already…I think she was almost three or maybe… Well, no. By the time Leora was born, she was already three and a half. But even just talking about, you know, trying again, it was benefit versus risk, honestly. Yeah, there was a small part of me that’s like, maybe in an ideal world, this won’t happen again, or it won’t be as bad, or I’ll have the tools, you know, from last time, which essentially we did. Meaning, you know, we reached out to The Motherhood Center when Leora was six weeks old because it was just…you know, in comparison to the first time around where she was three, going on four months, and we were kind of, you know, scrambling for help. But it was…I wanted…

You know, growing up, I had two siblings, Ari is one of four, and it just… I think we just felt that, you know, we wanted to give Kira a sibling, and it wasn’t a decision that we made lightly. And like I said earlier, I really had…I don’t want to say false hope, but when I didn’t have symptoms in my third trimester, you know, I was at work. I worked until…she was due in January, and I ended up having her on the 29th. And I was working on Christmas, I remember, which was crazy because I also literally could not move or walk. But we were short-staffed, and I was like, I can’t leave them. But, yeah. I think I just…we just felt like this is what we want to do. And you know, I think, actually, I was probably more on board than Ari was, which makes sense. That’s also…

Dr. Fox: Yeah. Totally. He had to see you go through this. That’s awful to see a loved one go through this.

Ruthie: For sure. And also, for him, you know, having to carry…literally carry the burden, you know. Like I said earlier, you know, your brain compensates by kind of making you forget things. And he didn’t forget, you know. He remembered all the details and everything that we went through and, you know, had to be actively on board to say, okay, I’m willing to do this again so that I can have two kids, you know.

Dr. Fox: It’s really amazing. And I’m going to give you a shout out right now, whether it embarrasses you or not. You know, in this world, you know, a lot of people have kids, obviously. And if someone has something that’s obvious that’s going on in their life, you know, they have a… I don’t know. They’re in a wheelchair, whatever it is, right? Or they have…obviously, they have some sort of physical ailments or some sort of condition, and they get pregnant. They go through pregnancy, and everyone’s like, oh, my God, what a warrior, unbelievable, you know, so amazing. Everyone’s just marveling at the fact that she…that this couple had a kid despite these challenges.

But you don’t get that, you know? Nobody knows how hard it is for you to make a decision to have another kid and to go through that pregnancy. And it’s the exact same sort of thing. Obviously, it’s different because of what we’re talking about, but it’s the same concept that, you know, you’re also the warrior who decided, I’m going to do this. And despite knowing or knowing that likely I’m going to have a really tough time, I might be a wreck during pregnancy and postpartum, it’s going to affect me, it’s going to affect my husband, but I want to do this. I want to have another kid. That’s awesome that you did that again, knowing how hard it was going to be, and that you came through on the other side. And that’s just really, really impressive. You know, I do this for a living, and I see people who, you know, do this all the time and under different circumstances, obviously. But I feel that those who know that they’re going to have mental health challenges just don’t get the…I don’t know, the shout out that they deserve for doing that. So, there you go. You got it on the air.

Ruthie: Thank you.

Dr. Fox: You got it on the air.

Ruthie: [crosstalk 00:27:45]. You can’t see me, but I’m smiling. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it’s… You raise also a really good point of just… And I always say this. You know, someone with a broken leg, it’s just not…it’s not that their issue is more important, less important. It’s visible to everybody, you know? Someone on the subway is going to see them having trouble getting on and off, and it’s like, oh, this person needs help. Let me help them versus…

Dr. Fox: Or they won’t help. This is New York. So, I don’t know.

Ruthie: Right. Right. Fair. But, you know, someone with, unfortunately, mental illness, it’s invisible. You can be walking around and I… You know, I was not so public about it and slowly becoming a little bit more, you know, comfortable sharing. And I’ve had people reach out to me, and they’re like, I had no idea. And I’m like, because, well, why would you, you know? It’s like, you see, let’s say, on Instagram, and it’s like, oh, wow, what a cute baby. And look, Leora is two months old. Oh, my gosh, must be so nice. You know, they have a beautiful family, and it’s all these things. And you just have no idea, you know, what’s going on behind closed doors or, like you said, what people have gone through to get there, whether it is mental or, you know, physical, or infertility, or any of these things. It’s so not spoken about, and it’s just…it’s invisible. It really is.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. And it’s also…I think, you know, A, it’s not spoken about, but B, let’s say someone did, you know, tell everyone, hey, you know, I had a baby. By the way, I have really bad postpartum depression. Just want to let you know. I think most people still wouldn’t know what to make of that. Right? Because even though it… Let’s say it’s being spoken about, but do I drop off a casserole for that? What’s the protocol? And I think people just don’t know how to interact, even those who are very well-intentioned, obviously. So, I guess, to get practical… For people listening, if…let’s say, they know someone who has a history of mental health, you know, issues, or they know they have postpartum depression or anxiety. How could they be helpful? Meaning, if you could go back, how could people have been helpful to you had you told them about it and have they known and have they wanted to, you know, help you in any way possible? What would have been useful?

Ruthie: It’s like one of those where the question is so much better than the answer. I think also…

Dr. Fox: Well, I doubt that. We’ll wait for your answer, and then we’ll decide.

Ruthie: I’ll try. I’ll try. I mean, honestly, I also…I can only speak for myself, you know.

Dr. Fox: Sure. That’s fair.

Ruthie: You could have someone else that’s going through it and doesn’t want anybody to reach out to them, you know? And I have a couple of close friends who, thank God, are very supportive, and they know both times what I went through. And, you know, honestly, I just remember getting texts or messages that are just like someone knowing…knowing that someone’s there, like I’m here, you want to talk, you don’t want to talk, I’m here. I think, sometimes not talking about it and just talking about normal things that, you know, we would talk about otherwise. Like I had a friend that just texted…you know, we listen to a specific podcast, like, hey, did you see a new podcast just dropped?

That’s why I’m saying, for different people, it’s different. Someone else might think, you know, oh, you’re…you know, we’re just not acknowledging the elephant in the room. But I think it depends on the person, and their friends, and their family, and how they can best show up to support them. But for me, you know, I had a friend who actually had a baby this year and, you know… For her knowing… Thank God, she didn’t experience anywhere near what I did. But knowing that she had someone in her corner that went through, you know, something as big as I did and just being able to know that I was there as a resource and just a sounding board where it’s like, she gets it. She literally went through it, and just having that. I think, yeah. I think really at the end of the day, it’s just knowing that they’re there for you in whatever capacity works best, you know.

Dr. Fox: You mentioned at the very beginning of this podcast that, over time, you know, the past years, you’ve become more open about your story and what happened to you and sort of what you went through. So, I’m going to ask two questions about that. The first is, why? What is it that made you want to be more open about it? And the second question I’m going to ask you is, in what way are you more open about it other than coming on this podcast, like in a day-to-day or a month-to-month sort of timeframe? What are you actually doing that’s making you more open about it? So, I’m going to go to the first one. Why are you more open about it now compared to earlier?

Ruthie: So, I think, in the beginning I was more… I mean, for really no good reason, that I was embarrassed. I think it just felt…which is like, I was perpetuating the stigma myself, which is ironic, you know? And I always think about this. I’m like, if it was my patient at work, I would of course treat them, the mental health, the same as their physical health. And then I’m like, why am I not practicing what I preach, literally? And I think it kind of just hit me one day, where I just felt like, you know, you can’t just say, let’s normalize it, stomp out the stigma, and then not do anything. You have to walk the walk and talk the talk, or something like that.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. You’re going to walk the… You can’t just talk the talk. You have to walk the walk.

Ruthie: Thank you. Yes, exactly.

Dr. Fox: Or I think that’s how it goes. Yeah. Look. Neither of us have any idea, but okay.

Ruthie: Somebody is probably Googling it or yelling at the podcast like, guys, you literally just misquoted it. But it’s fine.

Dr. Fox: We’re in healthcare. We’re not poets. What do you want?

Ruthie: This is true. This is true. But, yeah. I think I kind of just felt like… Also, I went through this horrible thing. I’m only 30, and I went through this twice in my life, and I just felt that it needed to have a purpose for me of like, this didn’t just happen to me because it sucks, and like, great, let’s move on. I felt like this was an awful thing that happened to me that is so unfortunately common, and I want someone to benefit from it, or just someone to know they’re not alone, or just that there is help, and there is support, and it’s not your fault. I think that also. I remember the first time with Kira, I just kept saying, sorry, like, I am so sorry. And he’s like, why are you sorry? You did not… And it’s part of the illness itself, you know? I felt that I myself was causing it. Yeah. I think just to give those people that voice, who otherwise feel that they’re not normal or they’re alone. They’re not.

Dr. Fox: And so, how… My second question was, how practically are you being more open about it, again, other than what we’re doing right now?

Ruthie: Yeah. I mean, this is a big first, actually.

Dr. Fox: Oh. Okay. Good. Fine. This may be the beginning of the journey. I like that. All right.

Ruthie: No. For real. This may be. I don’t know. So, after Kira was born and I went through postpartum with her, similarly, I felt this need to do something. And I found…we were living in a city at the time, and I found that the American National Foundation for Suicide Prevention does these walks, these out of the darkness walks. And I think it was maybe about…she was like one and a half. And I was like, let’s do it. It’s on a Sunday. I think it was out on Long Island. My parents were able to come. And, you know, I reached out to them and they said, do you have a particular reason why you’re walking? You know, we love the support. And, you know, they have these different colored beads also. If you’re walking for someone you lost or a personal struggle, or all these different things.

And they actually ended up bringing me on stage. And I was the representation of someone with a personal struggle and specifically for, you know… And I thank God I didn’t have to talk because I remember I agreed to it. And then part of me was like, wait, I’m not getting on the stage in front of Nassau County and all these people I don’t know. And they’re like, no, no, no, don’t worry. We’ll just give a one-liner of you walking to represent those who struggled specifically maternal mental health. And then I think I did the walk maybe another one or two times. And then, honestly, I was probably working the other Sunday. So, I wasn’t able to continue doing it. Shout out to healthcare.

I mean, my Instagram is private. So, only people who know me follow me. So, it’s not like I have this huge platform or whatever. Yeah. I think I posted after Leora was six months. There was a picture of me at the pediatrician with… And shout out to this pediatrician that does postpartum check forms on the mom because that’s also amazing. But, you know, at the six-month appointment, it was the first time that I felt not panicked when they brought it out. I remember at the one-month or the two-month or her…you know, Leora didn’t eat a lot. So, she had a lot of weigh-ins. They would bring that form out. And I was like, I don’t want to…nope, I don’t want to fill this out. I don’t want to do this. And it was the first time, you know, that I filled it out and I was like, oh, I’m okay. I’m more than okay, you know?

So, I posted about that. And then I recently made similarly…I don’t know, just like a reflection. Leora was turning one of the year and just how far I’ve come this year. And with both pregnancies and both postpartum experiences, to just kind of get that conversation out there of, you know, it’s so common and it’s not talked about. And for all the moms that feel this way, I see you, and I am you, literally. And it blew up. I got responses. I got messages from people who I went to high school with, who I haven’t spoken to in 15 years, or somebody from my PA school class who I haven’t seen. All these things…such nice messages, which was totally not the point of me doing it. I just wanted people to feel like we can talk about this, and we’re all thinking it and just not discussing it. So, yeah. I think that was kind of my way of, I don’t know, being out there about it.

Dr. Fox: Wow. Ruthie, it’s amazing, really. I think that the fact that you decided to become more open about it, I think, is and is going to continue to be very helpful for others. I would predict it’s probably going to be very helpful and therapeutic for you as well, even though that’s not the reason you’re doing it. I think it is going to be a benefit of it. And it’s really…it is important because so many people who listen to this podcast either have gone through this or might go through this, or even if they don’t go through this, they will absolutely certainly know someone who goes through this.

It’s so common that everybody knows multiple people have gone through this, and just talking about it and recognizing, as you said, the elephant in the room, that this is…it’s not really an elephant anymore. It’s like a squirrel because it happens so often. Right? It’s not unusual enough that it has to be an elephant. It really is prevalent and just that more people understand that it’s real. And like you said, it’s not something that one has to be ashamed about or feel guilty about. I mean, can you imagine if one of your patients on the cancer floor said, I’m sorry, I have cancer? I mean, like, what, you know?

Ruthie: I would literally be like, I don’t… Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. It’s like…

Dr. Fox: You would never think that for cancer. But for some reason, like you said, a lot of people, either themselves or about others, feel that way about mental health. It’s not, obviously, but it’s a very prevalent thought. And so, I do think that what you’re doing is very, very important, and I appreciate it. And I’m sure that our listeners do. And if this is your first venture into podcasting, you should do it more because you’re really good at it.

Ruthie: Thank you. Yeah. No. I’ve literally never done something like this before. This morning I was like, oh, my gosh, I’m shaking. I have no idea how to do this. And you made it super comfortable. So, thank you. And, yeah, thank you for having me.

Dr. Fox: Thank you for listening to the “Healthful Woman” podcast. To learn more about our podcast, please visit our website at www.healthfulwoman.com. That’s healthfulwoman.com. If you have any questions about this podcast or any other topic you would like us to address, please feel free to email us at hw@healthfulwoman.com. Have a great day.

The information discussed in “Healthful Woman” is intended for educational uses only. It does not replace medical care from your physician. “Healthful Woman” is meant to expand your knowledge of women’s health, and does not replace ongoing care from your regular physician or gynecologist. We encourage you to speak with your doctor about specific diagnoses and treatment options for an effective treatment plan.