“Fifty years of Taking Care of Patients and Teaching” – with Dr. Jacob Fox

Dr. Nathan Fox: Hey, welcome to the Healthful Woman podcast, the fastest growing podcast in woman’s health, today is Monday, July 11, 2022. Today and next week, my guest is my dad, Dr. Jacob Fox, or, Jack Fox, has been my dad for most of his life and all of mine. He is also a neurologist who practiced in Chicago for close to 50 years before retiring a few years ago. He was a clinical neurologist and also professor and chair of the Department of Neurology at Rush Medical Center in Chicago for about 25 years. In the academic neurology world, he is best known as an award winning teacher and an expert in dementia and Alzheimer’s disease. In the outside world, he is a world-famous comedian, runner, social drinker, and overall awesome person, and he is definitely what we call “Old School”. This interview was done using my podcast equipment and his flip phone. Now, I love my dad, but since I’m his son you might think I’m biased. However, after this week and next week’s podcast I’m guessing you’re going to love him too and will probably want him to start his own podcast, which won’t happen.
Today. my dad and I talk about his bird’s eye view of his career and medicine in general for the past 50 years and next week we’re going to talk about his speciality, neurology, more specifically, memory loss, neurocognitive decline, and dementia. Thanks for listening, have a great week.
Welcome to today’s episode of Healthful Woman, a podcast designed to explore topics in woman’s health at all stages of life. I am your host Dr. Nathan Fox, an OBGYN and Maternal Fetal Medicine Specialist practicing in New York City. At Healthful Woman, I speak with leaders in the field to help you learn more about women’s health, pregnancy, and wellness.
All right, Dr. Jacob Fox, Dad, how are you this morning?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Natey, I am terrific.
Dr. Nathan Fox: So, I’m going to ask, this is your first time podcasting I assume?
Dr, Jacob Fox: It is, I’m not even sure I know what a podcast is, but, it sounds like it’s something that may have some value.
Dr. Nathan Fox: I was thinking this morning, you are probably the first person ever to be invited as a guest on this podcast and the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well, that’s… I don’t know, I guess I should be flattered.
Dr. Nathan Fox: When were you on Oprah, was it in the ’80’s? It was awhile ago, right?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Oh, it was a long time ago, I presume it was the ’80’s and really the people who were on Oprah were, or was, the wife of a patient of mine and his daughter, and I think Oprah wanted to interview them and find out what it was like living with someone who had significant memory problems, and for some reason she also decided that it would be worthwhile having the patient’s doctor there. Since at least at that time, I don’t know what she does now, she was recording in Chicago and so it was quite easy for me to participate.
Dr. Nathan Fox: What was it like meeting her? Because this is early in her career, she wasn’t the huge national sensation then that she is now.
Dr. Jacob Fox: She seemed like a nice lady, you know, at least for me, it didn’t have much affect on me one way or the other. I really just was trying to accommodate my patient’s family. I remember, as I think I told you I did, beforehand they said because it was on television, they said “Well, do you want to be made up?” And I said, “No, I’m satisfied with whatever I’ve got.” And to which the makeup artist said “Well, you could use it.” But I still didn’t do it and so everybody got what I had.
Dr. Nathan Fox: I did not offer you to get made up for the podcast, but, you know, I guess it’s fine because it’s all audio, who’s going to know?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Absolutely, and I look no worse than usual.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Wonderful, well I appreciate you coming on the podcast even though you don’t exactly what’s going on here or what this is…
Dr. Jacob Fox: Okay.
Dr. Nathan Fox: … What goes on with podcasts, but it’s as you told me, you’ve done radio interviews and spoken publicly so this is definitely in your wheelhouse, and you and I have spoken before so we’re comfortable with each other.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Okay, I’m ready.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Okay, so I wanted to start, first, get your perspective just as someone who’s, so to speak, been around the block in the world of medicine. You are recently retired from clinical medicine, so congratulations, and…
Dr. Jacob Fox: Thank you.
Dr. Nathan Fox: … So you’ve been doing it a long time and I’m curious if you could, you know, I’m going to ask you some questions about, you know, what it was like then versus now. You know, things that have changed, pick your brain a little bit about the world of medicine.
Dr. Jacob Fox: I was born in 1942, and I graduated medical school in 1967, I had one year of general medical internship and since then, 1968, I’ve been a neurologist in training. I was in the military for two years and I practiced neurology since then, so obviously my knowledge is more acute about the impact of medicine and neurology than it is everything else, but I certainly have my views on medicine.
Dr. Nathan Fox: What prompted you to go to medical school in the first place?
Dr. Jacob Fox: I’m embarrassed to say that I never thought of anything different. My father was a doctor, my sister, who unfortunately has passed away, wanted to be a doctor, I had uncles and cousins and others that were going to be doctors and I honestly never thought about it. It just was assumed by me and by other people.
Dr. Nathan Fox: And how did you decide neurology specifically?
Dr. Jacob Fox: When I was a medical student, as you know, the last two years are spent seeing patients and I had in those days, the neurology rotation was what was called elective, meaning you didn’t have to do it, but I did choose to do it. I don’t remember exactly why, but I found those patients particularly interesting. I wasn’t interested in anything that involved surgery, I consider myself a substantial klutz and I would never have wanted to do that, I wouldn’t have enjoyed it, so therefore it had to be something mental, that everybody else referred to as “the swamis” and so, when you think about it, that’s internal medicine, pediatrics, psychiatry, neurology, dermatology, and amongst those all I liked neurology the best, I certainly have not regretted it and I can say what I say all the time to medical students and people who come to interview, I honestly don’t think I’ve met a neurologist who regretted his or her choice in that specialty.
Dr. Nathan Fox: That’s interesting, that’s also interesting because your father was an ophthalmologist, which is a surgical field, right, so he was a surgeon, and your sister a dermatologist, which is sort of both, depends on how you look at it. But certainly you don’t want to be a klutz if you’re a dermatologist cause you’re, you know, cutting things and sewing things.
Dr, Jacob Fox: That’s true, unfortunately I had the motor skills that I have and therefore I wouldn’t want to be in a position where slight changes in my movements could have a detrimental affect on a patient. And of course you know that like everything else in life, the things that you tend not to be that good at are usually things that you’re not terribly interested in. Since I never felt that manual skills were my long suit, I never was very interested in surgery or anything that involved surgery.
Dr. Nathan Fox: When you finished training, you originally started in private practice, correct?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Sort of, I was always partly academic. Earlier in my career, I would say it was more private practice and later in my career, it was more academic. But I think that was because as time went on, particularly in the ’80’s, as cognitive decline, mental decline, Alzheimer’s Disease, became more identified and understood, there was a big demand for academic programs that specialized in Alzheimer’s Disease, and where I was at Rush Medical School, I was the guy who did it. And so therefore, basically I changed my practice from a private practice into an academic practice. And then I just got involved in academic life in general, but it wasn’t per se an overt decision on my part, it just depended on what was always going on in the community of patients.
Dr. Nathan Fox: And can you just explain what would be the sort of day to day or practical difference between switching, or you know, sort of transitioning from a private practice to more academic. I mean like, for our listeners, what would that even mean?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well, you know at least for me, it really didn’t make much difference. I think that when you’re an academic, and now at least, it doesn’t makes that much difference at all because there’s no extra money in the system, and therefore people, doctors, in academics still have to support themselves and most doctors in academics are going to support themselves by seeing patients. Now if you happen to be somebody who is funded in research, if you have a grant from the National Institute of Health that is paying for let’s say half of your salary, that would mean that half of the time is being paid for already. I’m not sure I really felt all that much difference between the two. I saw patients and did the same kind of things, once we developed a program in Alzheimer’s, I had a lot more help than I had before, we had nurses, we had social workers, and they were very helpful. I mean, a lot of things that I might have had to do or explain or try to explain, sometimes ineffectively, in private practice the social workers and the nurses were able to do a better job but I never felt all that much difference.
Dr. Nathan Fox: And was it different in terms of residents or medical students or were they also seeing patients with you and rounding with you when you were originally more private compared to academic?
Dr. Jacob Fox: I was fortunate that even when I was in private practice, I had residents with me a lot of times. I say when I became academic in neurology, there was even more so. The residents then were neurology residents as opposed to when I was in private practice in a community hospital with family practice residents or medical residents. Students were clearly more with me when I was academic in the medical school, but at least for myself I always, always was interested in teaching. And as you know, because we’ve talked about it, I feel that we physicians who are participating in teaching are really, we’re the luckiest. We have the most fun, we’re always dealing with these smart young people, we have to explain ourselves. We can’t just rely on people saying, you know, taking our word for it and I think that it makes it more challenging, more interesting, and I think the other thing about academics is the most difficult patients tend, through the pipeline, to end up at the academic medical centers, so therefore you see a particularly large number of difficult patients. However, at the private practice I also saw many very difficult patients.
Dr. Nathan Fox: By difficult, you mean, sort of intellectually not personality-wise?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Absolutely, you’re correct.
Dr. Nathan Fox. Right.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Intellectually what’s wrong, the community hospital has done everything they can, they don’t know what’s wrong, “Okay, we’re going to send you the medical school, let’s see if they can figure it out.” And that’s the way it would work.
Dr Nathan Fox: I was going to ask you about teaching because I know from, you know, I’ve over the years gotten to meet some of your medical students or residents, certainly not the majority of them but a fair number of them, and all of them have always said several things about you. One is your great ability to go out and drink with them, and number two is obviously your keen sense of humor, but they always, always, always, always mention that you are the best teacher that they had in medical school.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well, that’s very sweet of them and I remember they may have said something else to somebody else’s son if they happen to meet them, you know, so you can’t be sure about that. But, listen, you know something? You tend to be best in the things you enjoy, I mean if you enjoy doing something, you’re much more likely to do a good job than if you don’t enjoy doing something. I think everybody knows that intuitively. I enjoy teaching, I enjoyed being with the young people, and so, you know, I wanted to do my best.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Yeah and I think that’s actually one of the interesting things because, you know, sometimes when either in hospitals or certainly in any industry, when you try to divide work let’s say, evenly, if I said “You’re going to teach on Monday, you’re going to teach on Tuesday, you’re going to teach on Wednesday,” those people don’t always enjoy it the same amount and you end up with having people doing things that they don’t want to do and they don’t enjoy doing even though it’s maybe equitable. Whereas you can have a system where you try to have people do what they like to do. You were a leader, you were the chair of the department, you know, forever, did you think about it in that sense? “All right I want my people who love to teach or are good at teaching, have them teach, and then the people who love being in a lab, I’m going to stick them in a lab and everyone’s happy.”
Dr. Jacob Fox: Absolutely I thought about it, though it was considerably easier than it might sound because there was a self selection process. Generally, people who ended up in academics were generally people who enjoyed teaching. Obviously, there is exceptions to that. In modern medical schools, like every place else, there’s all these evaluations that I would look at them. We were fortunate almost everybody got a very good evaluation, the rare circumstance where somebody was said not to be a very effective teacher, at least my approach would be I’d talk to them and say, “Hey, you know, you’re doing something that isn’t helping the students and the residents, you know, pick up the pace!” Well yeah, I didn’t go into specifics, I don’t know, I’m sure there’s a whole skill in teaching but I surely don’t know what is and they almost invariably did, and if they didn’t I wouldn’t have them teach anymore, I’d just have them see patients without students and residents. But fortunately for me that was a very infrequent occurrence.
Dr. Nathan Fox: And you were at the same place pretty much your entire career at Rush in Chicago.
Dr. Jacob Fox: I was at Rush all the time, it was after I got out of the Army and you know, as I said I was in for a decade or maybe more I was also in a community hospital practice and that’s basically because I had people like you who I had to send to school and I needed more money. And so therefore, it was really a pretty simple calculation, but I don’t think there’s as great a discrepancy between, in the compensation that people in academics get now compared to private. It certainly is some difference but, it’s not as great as it used to be because the people in academics, once again, they have to see patients and the patients pay the same in the medical school as they do in private practice, so it’s not as big a deal anymore.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Did you intentionally stay at the same place or did it just sort of fall out that way? Because I think it’s unusual for people to stay in academic medicine in the same place their whole career.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well, I wasn’t a famous researcher. It’s not like I was getting called from Harvard or Stanford, “Hey, you know, your research is going to win a Nobel prize, move to Boston or move to wherever Stanford is.” It’s not what I did, I saw patients and so therefore, you know, the people in Chicago knew about me but, you know, I was what I was and I enjoyed where I was so I never actively sought out another place to practice, I enjoyed what I was doing and you know, the people, the town, they knew what I was and they knew I was happy. So, it wasn’t a very big deal. Again, I think where people who had, the people in my department who moved were people who had high level research programs where what they did was known and people wanted to bring them to join a different program, that’s where it occurred.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Right, and how did you survive as a chair of the same department for so many years, what was it, 25-plus years that you were the chair?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Twenty-five-plus, yes…
Dr. Nathan Fox: Twenty-five-plus. A, how did you survive physically, how did you get through that? And, B, how did you succeed? That’s very unusual for someone to be the chair of the same department for that long without someone just getting sick of them and throwing them out a window.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well, fortunately, you’re my son so you’re nice enough to say I succeeded, and I happen to agree with you as a matter of fact. As far as that, I didn’t look at what I did as any different than being a doctor. When the people who worked for me, I had on rare occasions where they would call me “boss” or something, and I said, “Forget about this boss business.” You know we’re all doctors, we’re all seeing patients, and you know, there has to be an administrative super-structure here, but, we’re pretty much all the same. Identifying the physically taxing, whether I was in private practice or in academic practice, I would get up early in the morning and I would exercise and I’d always leave the house by six o clock because I wanted to avoid traffic. I didn’t find it demanding in that sense.
The thing that I had that really helped me was that people trusted me. I was very, very good at recruiting, I started out, I think, when I became chairman with maybe a dozen neurologists and by the time I had finished I had 50 neurologists. And I was good at recruiting but I think that if you’re good at recruiting, that means you recruit very good people, it means you have a good department. It all builds itself, and I think the reason I was successful at recruiting was people trusted me, and the fact is that they were correct to trust me because you could trust me. If I said I was going to do this for you, I did that for you, and if I said I wasn’t going to do it, I said I am not going to do that for you and so, you know, the word got around that whatever deal they made with me when they came was the deal that they were going to get and that was it. And I think that was to me, that was the key to my success, assuming I was successful. And again, since people trusted me I was able to recruit excellent people and obviously if you have a department with 50 neurologists, how good any individual neurologist is isn’t what it’s all about, it’s how good everybody is collectively and we collectively had great doctors.
Dr. Nathan Fox: That’s amazing, so I wanted to ask you, just you know, perspective, like high level, if you look at the course of your career, what would you say is the single or some of the biggest differences in medicine? You could be specific about neurology if you want, or medicine in general from when you started to now.
Dr. Jacob Fox: For sure, let’s pick neurology because I know that best. As far as diagnosis and treatment, and if you’re talking over a 45-year career, diagnosis and treatment improved dramatically. Start with diagnosis, when I started in practice there was no CAT scanning and there was no MRI, and so the availability of those techniques made your ability to have a very specific diagnosis much better but one of the things I try and point out to our trainees ultimately, that’s not what made a difference. The difference for the patient, let’s say with multiple sclerosis in 1971, when I finished my Army service, and right now, ’22, okay, it’s easier to make the very specific diagnosis of multiple sclerosis using MRI but the real difference is we just have much better treatments. When I think of some of the big time illnesses in neurology, multiple sclerosis, stroke, Parkinson’s disease, the big change is better treatments and one of the sad, sad facts is that for cognitive decline or dementia, there isn’t a very good treatment and you can say anything you want about the cure we give to those patients. Ultimately, as far as treating them specifically we haven’t succeeded like we’ve succeeded in the other things, and that what has made neurology better and better and better, it’s pretty much as simple as that as far as the collective health system and stuff like that.
I can’t say that I ever spent much time thinking about all that. Since I was chairman for so many years, I always dealt with upper levels, the president, and the dean, and stuff like that. To tell you the truth, I felt sorry for them, they had to worry about that stuff and where I was at Rush, they asked me to be the provost at one time, that’s like, sort of, the head of the whole academic program, I quit after two years. I couldn’t stand it, all I did was go to meetings, there wasn’t anything in particular I liked about that, I wanted to see patients. I’m not sure I’m the right person to give you the big picture. I can give you the picture as far as the patients, they got better diagnosis and they got better treatments and listen that’s what being doctors is all about.
Dr. Nathan Fox: How about the trainees, the medical students, or the residents over the years? How have you noticed a change?
Dr. Jacob Fox: They’ve been smart all along, you know, every now and then you have one of the old geezers like me, but I wasn’t going to sit there and say, “Ah, they’re not as good as they were and blah blah blah blah.” And I remember I was always the one to say “Oh you’re so full of it.” They’re just as good as we were, no question about it, you know?
Dr. Nathan Fox: Yeah.
Dr. Jacob Fox: We happen to know more because we’ve been doing it for 30 years, but they’re just as good as we are, just as ambitious, the huge difference is now half of them are women.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Right.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Instead of when I was, you know, so that’s the difference. But other than that, they’re great.
Dr. Nathan Fox: I’m always impressed with how smart med students are…
Dr. Jacob Fox: [crosstalk 00:23:42.214]
Dr. Nathan Fox: Yeah, most of the people in medicine now who have been doing well always say, “My god, I’d never get into medical school if I applied now. You know, with the scores I had, forget it, they’d throw me out immediately, because they’re just so super smart.” I think that there is definite different pressures on them or expectations of them that maybe you had or maybe I had, you know, sort of over the years but certainly the caliber of people going into medicine is amazing. It gives us all hope, obviously there’s good people.
Dr. Jacob Fox: You know listen, they’re great, but you know, I personally disagree with you as far as the expectations and stuff like that. I think we doctor’s will always have very demanding expectations with the people who were training us. When my residents were finished and they wanted to talk to me, and I’d say “Well, I want you to know, the final way you’ll know that I think that you’re good is when I send you patients. You have to be good enough that I’m going to send you a patient, and good enough that I would send somebody from my family to you.” So that’s the marker and all these other things, if they haven’t reached that level, then we’ve failed. But the fact is they do reach that level.
Dr. Nathan Fox: You know it’s interesting, a lot of doctors, let’s say, from your generation, whatever that means, were very…
Dr. Jacob Fox: Old.
Dr. Nathan Fox: … Were very…
Dr. Jacob Fox: That’s what it means.
Dr. Nathan Fox: … Yeah, have been very discouraging to others to go into medicine. Like, I know when I was thinking about medical school, a lot of people, your contemporaries were like, “Oh, don’t do it, it’s horrible, it’s this, it’s that.” But you were always extremely encouraging, I don’t mean just to me as your son to, like, you know, to follow your own path but just in general, you were always very positive on medicine and being a doctor.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well I think people were completely wrong.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jacob Fox: There are things now that are less attractive about being a doctor than there were when I started. Particularly all the record keeping, and all that sort of stuff, which I never enjoyed doing. But okay, so nothing is perfect, but the question is what’s going on in the rest of the world? Where does being a doctor rank compared to being something else? And the fact is ultimately, the bottom line about being a doctor is you’re taking care of patients. And how can anybody say that that’s not a terrific way to spend your life. I’m not saying that there aren’t other equivalently terrific ways to spend your life but that’s a terrific way to spend your life, you know? And so, these other things are annoyances, they don’t get to the basics of what being a doctor is all about. And that’s my feeling about it, and I think that those people, my contemporaries, the old doctors who would say, “Oh, it’s not the same as it used to be.” Of course, nothing is the same as it used to be, but it’s still, it’s great. There’s nothing very complicated about it.
Dr. Nathan Fox: So you would be as encouraging now as you were 30 years ago when I was deciding?
Dr. Jacob Fox: Absolutely, and if any of my grandchildren want to go into medicine, I’ll tell them that’s great, I think you’re making the right decision, and if any of my great-grandchildren, though they’re a little bit young to be thinking about this, but I mean, you know, I think it’s a great way to spend your life. It’s not the only great way to spend your life, not that if you don’t go into medicine you’re somehow failing, that’s not true at all, but if it’s something that, you know, grabs you, it’s a great way to spend your life. It has an impact, you know, as far as family time and stuff like that but a lot of those things I believe are self-imposed. The thing I always think about is when I was an intern, the whole year I was an intern, maybe I stayed up all night once or twice where I had guys who were with me that stayed up all night every other night and they were psychotic by the end. But I know that they didn’t really have to do it, they just were so anxious about everything that they couldn’t just do what they had to do. And so, I think a lot of these things are self imposed and a lot of the things that doctors complain about now are self imposed. Like I said, being a doctor is a great way to spend your life.
Dr. Nathan Fox: What advice would you give to one of your grandkids who came to you saying, “I want to go into medicine?” Other than you would support it.
Dr. Jacob Fox: I’d say “That’s a great idea, you know?” And you know, you have to unfortunately, you have to get into medical school. And that’s the limiting factor, for instance, I meet with all the new M3’s, it’s the third year medical student’s on their first day of neurology, and I have an hour with them if I’m in town, and we talk about a couple of cases, and I always say the same thing and an issue that always comes up, “What do you think about my going into this area?” OB/GYN, whatever it is, and I always say the same thing, “The big decision has already been made, you’re a doctor. Doctors tend to be smart ambitious people. Smart ambitious people tend to like what they’re doing if it’s interesting. Medicine is interesting, and therefore whatever you decide to do, you’re going to be interested in and you’re going to enjoy it.” I believe that, I don’t think that the decision, your decision to go into OB/GYN, my decision to go into neurology, your brother David’s decision to go into general internal medicine, I think that we’re all equivalently happy. I was and what the two of you are and what you do and satisfied with it, so I don’t think that a very big deal, and you’re sort of attracted for whatever reasons there are to whatever specific things you do.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Do you have any regrets going through medicine so long, like, if you could change something about your career over time, is there something you would have done differently?
Dr. Jacob Fox: I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Why are you embarrassed to say that? You should be proud to say that.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well, there’s an element of self-satisfaction in that, in other words it implies that well, gee, you know, everybody can do better than they did.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jacob Fox: But the thing, I’m sure there are things that I could have done better, my problem is I don’t know what they were, you know? And therefore it’s not, you know, if somebody would come up to me and said, “Gee, you were terrible at this or terrible at that,” I would probably regret that I wasn’t better at that, but you know, people don’t tell you stuff like that.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Yeah, that’s definitely not your personality to think about those things. What do you miss most now that you’re retired?
Dr. Jacob Fox: I miss taking care of patients and teaching. Those were the two things that I really enjoyed doing, taking care of patients, and teaching, and I, again, I was lucky in my whole career I did both of those things all the time, I’m not saying that every single patient I saw I had a resident or a student with me, though I can say the vast majority that’s probably true, though not in the office when you’re seeing patients, in the office it’s much more difficult for the residents and students to participate but those are the two things that I enjoyed very very much. The other thing I enjoyed is once you figure out who you can ask when you have a question, I had a couple a guys and I had a muscle problem that I didn’t know about, I’d call this guy, I think it was a guy up at Mayo’s if I had a nerve problem, and those people tend to be terrific people, you talk to them, they’re friendly, they’re honest, they say, “I’m not sure.” And so you have the pleasure of interacting, and over the years because you figure out who they are, over the years you, you know, have the chance to talk to these people who are super duper experts in some particular area where you need some assistance and it was fun.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Wow, Dad, thanks for coming on the podcast to talk about your career and about medicine, and as you know we’re doing this back to back and we’re going to talk about something more specific to neurology in terms of cognitive decline, but how’s it going so far with your first podcasting experience? You seem to be a wiz at it.
Dr. Jacob Fox: So far, uh, I have no regrets. If you come now and tell me I did something terribly wrong, maybe I’d have regrets, but I have no regrets, I enjoy talking to you, so therefore…
Dr. Nathan Fox: Aw, that’s sweet, aw, well, I enjoy talking to you too. These are very long conversations, your phone conversations tend to be like in the three-minute range or less.
Dr. Jacob Fox: Well, what’s that old thing? I don’t give good phone. I don’t, you know, because I think you know, I think really a lot of the thing is that I’m just not a phone guy. But this is different because you know, it’s like we’re talking about something very specific where I may have some knowledge but, you know, what did you have for dinner last night, I’m not very interested in that.
Dr. Nathan Fox: There are some ways in which we are quite similar, I agree.
Dr. Jacob Fox: I agree.
Dr. Nathan Fox: Thank you for listening to the Healthful Woman podcast, to learn more about our podcast, please visit our website www.healthfulwoman.com. That’s H-E-A-L-T-H-F-U-L W-O-M-A-N .com. If you have any questions about this podcast or any other topic you would like us to address, please feel free to email us at hw@healthfulwoman.com, have a great day.
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