“Ariana’s Story, Part 2: TFMR, termination for medical reasons” – with Dr. Ariana Huselid

Dr. Fox: Welcome to today’s episode of “Healthful Woman,” a podcast designed to explore topics in women’s health at all stages of life. I’m your host, Dr. Nathan Fox, an OB-GYN and maternal-fetal medicine specialist practicing in New York City. At “Healthful Woman,” I speak with leaders in the field to help you learn more about women’s health, pregnancy, and wellness.

Ariana, welcome back on the podcast. For our listeners, you were with us a week ago. For me and you, you were with us one minute ago. Last week, you very eloquently and bravely told the story of how you decided to end a pregnancy after you got a diagnosis that your baby, unfortunately, had a condition that was not compatible with life, a lethal anomaly, as we call them.

And when we ended last week, you had essentially just gone through the story and you’d gotten home and you were talking about your process of going back to work and I guess getting back into your life, so to speak. I wanted to pick it up from there. What was that like after even just… The first few days, obviously, are just, you know, hit with an anvil, but it’s been months. What has it been like sort of going from that to where you are now? What kind of process has that been, or what kind of journey has that been?

Dr. Huselid: Yeah, I mean, I think I’ve heard people say very accurately that you don’t get over it. You move through it or you go through it. And that’s absolutely the case. And yes, to your point, the first couple of days, the first couple of weeks, absolutely hit by an anvil. And, you know, grief is one of those things that it takes the time it takes. And, you know, I’m almost exactly five months to the day post losing my baby. And I think there are a lot of people five months out who are still feeling hit by an anvil. So I just want to be really clear. That’s totally normal, too.

I do think it’s that really intense, weighted grief has lifted, not to say that it does not come back. Oh, my goodness. Mother’s Day, which is also moving into, like, the month when, like, baby starting could come. It was really hard. That was like another anvil.

One of the things I think that really struck me as being exceptionally hard because, of course, there is the grief of losing this baby and it was also just like moving back into life and being like, well, now what? And it was so hard to think about things like, well, wait a second. So I was due June 10th. So it was going to be like the summer maternity leave had already been planned out and we had already said no to family reunions and travel and put these things in place.

And I had not submitted abstracts for a conference in May because I was going to be, you know, about to pop out a baby and suddenly to be like, “Well, now what do I do?” Like, “Now what does this look like?” And like, “My boss is going to retire at a different time,” and then he pushed it back. It was suddenly like life was flipped on its head and just trying to put it together.

And then there are just all these reminders of what should have been. You know, we had signed up for free samples of baby stuff. It just kind of kept coming, and all these things. That was just bizarre and eerie. And it was really painful to think about, you know, well, now what? Now we can travel, but I don’t want to travel. I want to be a mom. You know, I was looking forward to being up all night with an infant and being stuck. I mean, it’s just really what could have done me, and was just unbelievable for me to have that ripped from us.

One of the things that I was so terrified about immediately was, how do I tell people? I can’t be walking around telling people that I just lost my baby, especially now, you know, that there’s the stigma around, you know, how I lost my baby. And so the day of the anatomy scan, in part because I am that rip it off like a band-aid kind of a person like I talked about last week, I immediately when I got home, I called my parents and then I sent out texts, and some of them were group texts, different groups of my closest friends and support network and closest colleagues to letting them know what was going on and say, “Please spread the word because I don’t want to have to be telling people. I really do not want people coming up to me asking me how the pregnancy is going. Can you feel I’m kicking yet?” I didn’t want to have to be facing that in person.

And then, you know, after the procedure, I also realize I don’t think it would have normally been in my nature to share about something like this publicly, but we had made the decision the month prior to share on Facebook that we were expecting. And I realized then also, well, shoot, you know, now I’ve moved a lot in my life and I’ve got friend groups kind of spread out through the country and word is not going to spread. And I felt like I had to share something there if I wanted to heat off, you know, texts and calls over the next couple of months out of the blue, you know, asking me questions about how the pregnancy is going. So I felt compelled to say something publicly.

But then, you know, I use that as an opportunity to kind of slip it on. I said, “Okay, well, if I feel like that’s going to be the best worst thing to do is to share something publicly all over one fell swoop, well, gosh, this is also an opportunity to share for the good of the community, to search on light on what happened. So there was a little bit of empowerment. It was almost a way to take back a little bit of control. So I think I recognized through this, you know, not only did I have everything set up for me in the best possible scenario if you are to go through something like this with regards to getting support and it being as least traumatizing as humanly possible.

But I also realized, boy, am sitting I in a place of privilege. You know, I’m a physician. I am surrounded by a very liberal community and with people who support me. And I feel like I want to share my story. I want to share what is going through because, gosh, the face of abortion, it’s not me and it’s not that those people are lesser or whatever. But it’s just, you know, to expand the horizons about this is a thing, you know, this happens and it’s terrible, especially because, you know, going through this, I was realizing in the days after getting this diagnosis, even though I feel confident in my decision and again, I’m around and surrounded by a community, people who I know would support my decision, telling people to their face that, “No, I didn’t have a miscarriage,” or, “I’m not miscarrying but I’m actually actively ending my pregnancy,” oh, my goodness, that’s really hard.

There is still such a fear of judgment. And if it’s hard for me to say that in my position, I can’t even imagine what it would be like for other people who don’t feel like they have that privilege or don’t feel like they’re in a community that would be supportive of them. So that idea of, you know, taking that step of sharing something publicly on Facebook was so important to just break the silence and raise awareness and start reducing the stigma.

Dr. Fox: Wow. Did you get any pushback? I mean, obviously, it sounds like you didn’t get much amongst your family and friends. Did anyone, like, again, challenge you or any way like that amongst people you know?

Dr. Huselid: No, I mean, I would say there was one person who I kind of read between the lines was due to their religious beliefs probably. I wouldn’t even say like…because I don’t think that they thought that it was the wrong thing for me to do, but probably was a little bit uncomfortable with it, but, boy, there was silence. There was never anything verbalized.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, they’re trying to process. I mean, how do they support you, even though the whole thing is just…you know, it’s… Yeah, I hear you. It’s a hard position for anyone to be in. I mean, obviously, you know, like we said, people are very emotional about this. And, you know, it doesn’t compute for people. They can feel very emotionally about something but they’re like, “Wait, but this person who I know and I love and I trust did this and it sounds quite reasonable, but on another hand, I’m supposed to be horrified by it. And how do I reconcile those two feelings? Because they’re feelings, right, that I have inside of me, that I’m both compassionate and horrified at the same time. How do I do that?” Because people, they’re led to believe that, you know, abortion is either, you know, all roses and unicorns are all horror. And of course, it’s not horror. It’s like it’s in between with all things. And it’s just hard for people to process that when their conversations about it are very superficial, I would say.

Dr. Huselid: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, one of the things, you know, I realize I went on a little bit of a tangent there, but you had asked me, you know, what was that time like afterwards? And I think I shared a little bit last time also about the importance of talking with other people who had been through similar circumstances. And that, boy, was the saving grace for me. And I dived in immediately into the TFMR community. It’s often called termination for medical reason.

And a silver lining also of this happening in this day and age is there are so many online communities and ways to connect with people across the globe. There are lots of Facebook groups dedicated to this topic. There are virtual support groups. The amazing clinic where I had received all my care at also has their own in-persons and sometimes hybrid support group themselves. There are podcasts that are dedicated to this topic. So it was amazing to go through this and not feel alone. And that made all the difference in the world just recognizing that everybody’s process is going to be a little bit different and what it’s going to look like, but it’s messy and hard. And we’re not alone. Other people are doing the same thing and walking this path.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, I mean, definitely true. And I think that, again, sometimes they’re in the shadows. But I do think that there has been, fortunately, like you said, more awareness, more recognition that this is a thing. And people who you know have gone through this and they may not have told you because maybe they weren’t as open about it, maybe they just said…

You know, I had patients who said to me in these situations, “What do I tell people? What do I tell my family and friends?” And I said, well, it depends. What do you want to tell them?” I mean, again, it’s the same thing. There’s no right answer, obviously. And you could either go in the direction you went. Listen, I’m just telling people and I’m going to not only tell people, but, you know, lean into it and sort of make it a point of advocacy.

And others, they’re just not up for that, and I just tell them that the baby passed away and then that’s it. And then, okay, you know, and that’s what they tell them. And so for them, maybe it provides them some comfort in that sense that they don’t have to go through the story, but then their story is unheard by most of the people who know them. And again, there isn’t…I’m not advocating that one way is right and one way is wrong. They’re different in how to approach it in that sense.

But definitely, there is more openness about it, I would say, nowadays and talk about it, which is ironic. Maybe it’s a pushback because of what’s going on in the country. That’s people are saying, like…because there’s so much pro-life or anti-abortion, whatever you want to call it, movement in this country, maybe people are digging into, you know, we have to do this. Or it could just be, in general, people are definitely more open about pregnancy complications and things that happen to people than they were in the past. It’s probably a combination of both, I would guess.

Dr. Huselid: Sure, seems like it. But I think it’s a move in the right direction. And yet, absolutely, everybody has to do what is right for them. And especially in a tough situation like this, I mean, it is survival. You do what you do to survive.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, just to get to the next day.

Dr. Huselid: Whatever it takes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Dr. Fox: When you reached out to me about telling your story, you know, usually people give like here’s my story. If you want to hear it, you know, this is what it is. But you put at the end of it very precisely, like, “I want to tell my story, and this is why I want to tell my story,” which is terrific. I mean, which is great. And I wanted to go through that so our listeners can sort of hear this and process this.

And again, I don’t want to… I guess it’s sort of lessons from your story or just sort of takeaway points that you think are important. Obviously, everyone’s going to take away different things from your story that are important, but just sort of how you organized it I thought was really helpful to me to sort of process your story. And so I wanted to go through and give an opportunity to talk about this. And you basically provided, like, five bullet points for why you’re telling your story, why this is important. And the first was breaking the silence. So we talked about this a little bit. Let’s talk a little bit more. So what do you mean by that?

Dr. Huselid: Yeah, absolutely. And I know we have talked some about this because TFMR, abortion, in general, is just such a taboo subject. Many women, especially in the current political environment often having to travel out of town and their pregnancies and effort to do what they think is best to protect their unborn child, often feel incredibly isolated and silenced by their experiences. And I think if we share stories in the way that you were talking about, this helps break the silence and it allows women to feel heard and validated in their experiences. Although, you know, it’s hard to figure out the prevalence of individuals who undergo termination for medical reasons.

And please correct me if this is wrong. But I usually read that the prevalence of major congenital fetal abnormalities is something like 3% to 4% of pregnancies. And depending on the specific anomaly, I guess whatever you consider major, there’s some range of 70% to 95% of these pregnancies end in terminations, and we just don’t talk about it. And again, these numbers might be off. And I’m not sure you’ve got others on the top of your tongue.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, I mean, the numbers are always a little… I mean, this is in the right ballpark. They’re obviously always different because of where you get them from and whose agendas that’s trying to get them for you. And, you know, it’s also very different state by state and community by community. I mean, I practice in New York City, which is a very blue state and the laws are very liberal. And I would say that it is correct sort of across the board. The rate of major congenital abnormalities is in the rate, you know, 3%-ish, 2%, 3%, 4%, somewhere in that range.

And in certain states, more people are going to terminate because that’s just sort of how they feel about it and because of the laws and the culture. And in other states, it’s not on the table, either because they don’t want it, or because their community won’t allow it, or because that’s just the thing to do or to not do I guess. And so those rates will vary significantly.

But what happens sort of as I guess a byproduct of that is in some states, they won’t do as much testing or as much investigating because, like, well, you know, why would I? You know, and there’s logic to that, obviously. You know, it’s not a wrong way to think about it but, you know, it’s not like if A then B, meaning you could say, “I’m not planning to terminate, but I want to know everything I can about my baby for birth.” So it’s not always that way. But it does happen to work out that way.

And so yeah, I think the TFMR definitely is prevalent. And most people who are listening to this podcast know somebody who’s done it. Either they know they know somebody who has done it or they know someone who has done it and don’t know that. But it’s probably different, you know, community by community in terms of the exact percentages. But it is prevalent and amongst people who do this line of work, they do terminations as a specialty, because, again, it’s a specialty because the first-trimester termination, the skills involved are not that complicated. Most first or second-year OB-GYN residents could do it.

But when you start getting to second-plus trimester, the skills are quite advanced and only a handful of people know how to do it safely. And those people, when you ask them, the people who do these I guess frequently, you would say, or regularly, the majority of them are for medical reasons. It’s not because someone just doesn’t want to be pregnant. And so I think that that sometimes shocks people.

Dr. Huselid: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think to that point, this idea of, you know, breaking the silence, I think there’s recently been a huge push in the baby loss community, in general, to start talking about these things like miscarriage, which, of course, is way more prevalent. But all these things have been so hush-hush for years, generations.

And we’ve made huge progress and yet in that baby loss community, TFMR is…we even feel stigmatized or sometimes not allowed to join those groups, right, because we chose to lose our babies, which is totally nuts. So there’s been steps forward and yet more progress everywhere is needed, but especially with women who have made the really, really hard decision to terminate their pregnancies. And it’s more common, to your point, than I think most people realize. So yeah.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. And I think that the second bullet point you have, which is really sort of the sister of breaking the silence is reducing stigma, that they sort of go hand in hand. By breaking silence you do reduce stigma. So what stigma are you talking about? Like, from whom?

Dr. Huselid: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s interesting. You know, I know you mentioned last time, and it’s something that’s, you know, really…it really resonated with me this idea that sometimes there’s so much external stigma against abortion, in general, from vehemently pro-life groups. It does get internalized.

So I think I was sharing that, you know, some of the stigma, I thought it really wasn’t coming from anybody else in my community. You know, I’m very fortunate to be surrounded by people who are entirely supportive of what we are going through in the decisions we are making and yet, my goodness, has that seeped in. It’s just rampant in the culture that it is a bad thing to do to end the pregnancy under any circumstance. Even though we also know that most Americans don’t actually feel that way, but, boy, is there a lot of shame.

I mean, I think the idea, and it kind of makes sense is we’ve got this idea of you’re killing your own baby. What a horrible thing to do. And yet what are we really doing? We’re, you know, prematurely terminating a pregnancy that was not going to end well to end the suffering of our baby or to prevent your baby from ever having to suffer. So it’s complicated.

Dr. Fox: It’s very complicated because everything you said is 100% correct. But I would say even on top of that, even amongst women who have, let’s say, a fetal demise, right? So they didn’t choose to do anything. They weren’t given a decision. There was no abnormality. You know, it happened to them like that and the baby’s no longer alive. They also feel shame and guilt, which is, of course, ludicrous.

Dr. Huselid: It’s so true.

Dr. Fox: I mean, there’s no logic to it, obviously, but it’s so prevalent and it’s so deep, right? It’s not just like the superficial, like they really feel like they’re at fault somehow. And so on top of that, if you consciously made a decision in either direction, you’re going to all the more so again and people are going to feel shame or guilt if they choose not to end the pregnancy also, because, oh, my God, this baby is… It’s human nature to one degree, and also, for whatever reason, we’re conditioned to believe that we have such control over these things that if it doesn’t go right it’s our fault. And whether that’s messaging, whether that’s just how we’re raised is sort of like, you know, free people that we have control over our destiny and all this stuff, or whether it’s just media directly hounding us in ways we don’t understand.

That’s the byproduct. And it’s so painful for people. For me, like, I see it every single day. I just see people. I’m like, “Oh, my God, I feel so horrible for you that you feel guilty over this.” I’m like, “You did nothing wrong.” And it’s one of the worst things that I see is people beating themselves up over things that happen to them. It’s like getting upset if you get hit by lightning, like it’s your fault.

Dr. Huselid: Absolutely. I mean, it really is bordering on psychotic, and yet there is something about it in human nature. I don’t know. Maybe the pain of just sitting in a grief is too hard so we’re trying to guilt easier for us to sit with. I don’t know. I think you’re right. It is trying to find an explanation. But it’s interesting when you said, you know, a woman who has a silver fetal demise, but I’m assuming it’s like, “Oh, yeah.”

Well, the instant thought that popped into my mind is, “Oh, well, they deserve to grieve,” whereas, you know, do I get to deserve? I mean, it’s naughty. And I know that’s incorrect, but that’s the first thing that pops into my mind is, well, I don’t know if I really deserve to grieve because I did this. So it’s totally worked.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. And again, that is so important also for those of us who have loved ones who are going through this or colleagues at work who are going through this or whatever it is. Again, just to have that appreciation that what they’re going through is gut-wrenching. It’s tearing them up inside. No matter what it is, just any complication from pregnancy is so hard for people to process and all the more so for the people who are watching those people. And you can’t help them process it. You just have to be kind to them and just say, like, “I’m here for you.” You know, like, “I’m so sorry. I love you. I’m here for you.” That’s all you can really do. You can’t, like, rationalize anything for them because their emotions are irrational.

Dr. Huselid: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, yeah, I couldn’t say it better.

Dr. Fox: And so again, well, that did lead into the next bullet point, which is providing support. So you obviously had some really good support. What things were helpful to you, and what things maybe weren’t helpful to you? Again so for our listeners to help all of us know how to support others who are going through this or something similar to this.

Dr. Huselid: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, like I’ve mentioned now a couple of times, I think one of the most healing things was to connect with other women who have been in similar situations and seeing how they kind of walked through, and I don’t want to say got to the other side because you never get to the other side, but how they walk through that really acute process or what they did and what was helpful for them and what wasn’t.

In my community, because right in the aftermath, in that really acute grief period, I remember feeling like I just wanted to be completely isolated. I just wanted to be with my husband and then, you know, with some connections to other people who have been through similar circumstances. I just did not want to talk to anyone else.

And part of that I think is natural in grief and I think part of that is also an attempt to protect myself because, you know, you do sometimes hear things that are not so helpful from people who mean it so well, things like, “Oh, goodness, well, you got pregnant pretty easily. This time it will probably just happen again fast.” “Oh, sometimes after you lose a baby, your body’s, you know, been primed and you’ll now get pregnant.” It’s like, well, no, no, no, you’re totally missing the fact that I’m losing my child right now. But can mean so well or whatever, all the refrains, I’m sure you’ve heard people complaining about as well. And people mean so well.

But to your point, I think just being there and just showing up and figuring out, you know, what I needed as well. And, you know, some of my best friends, I kind of stood some boundaries around. They said, you know, “I’m going to call you today.” I said, “I can’t take the call right now. I really appreciate it but I’m not up for it right now.” And, you know, I think people, like you were saying earlier, just being with you in that grief, you know, not trying to fix it, just that empathy.

You know, I think my parents were lovely. And, I mean, you know, helped in a work way because they were in that grief as well, but both of them were just right there and there was no trying to twist it or make it better or just like, “Yeah, this is the absolute worst. I can’t even imagine.” But that kind of not trying to fix it, not trying to say, “Oh, yeah, I’ve had lots of miscarriages, too,” or whatever it might be. Not that having a miscarriage is easier. I’m not comparing. It’s different. It’s different.

So, you know, I think to this bullet point I was bringing up the importance of providing support because if somebody is in this situation they don’t know other people in their network have been through it. They might not reach out. And how wonderful would it be for us to be able to talk openly about these things so that people know that they’re not alone and that others have been able to navigate these challenges before and to know who to go to for support and to learn from their experience and their strength and their hope when they’ve been navigating similar things as well.

Dr. Fox: Yeah, I mean, again, there’s sort of two things. For the people who are going through this, finding others who have been through this is probably the most practical support, like you said, especially in an environment where not a lot of people talk about it to get that sort of connection to someone and maybe practical advice from someone and just to be able to talk with someone who maybe gets it a little bit more than your other family and friends.

And then for those of us who are not in a position to do that because we haven’t been through it, I think the lesson is really, you know, in a certain sense more frequent check-ins, but less is more, meaning a text that says, “I’m thinking about you,” “I love you,” “I’m sorry,” is very powerful.

Dr. Huselid: Yes.

Dr. Fox: You know, just sending that, you know, every day, every other day, whatever it is and, you know, “Are you up for a call?” You know, “Are you up for a visit?” Yes or no. And sort of just that, just like “I’m here for you,” “I’m connected to you,” and leave it at that. You can sit in silence. And I think that that’s…some people have a hard time with that, doing that, but I think that that’s really just the most important part that you have people who are there for you.

Dr. Huselid: Absolutely. And one of the other things just to mention, you know, moving away from that really, really acute grief phase, you know, the first days or weeks is acknowledging the baby and what happens. And I don’t blame anybody. I would have done the exact same thing if I had a colleague or, you know, maybe not a best friend but acquaintance who had been through something similar just a year ago. I probably wouldn’t have been bringing it up or acknowledging it but, oh, my goodness, I like it when people acknowledge what’s going on.

And, you know, the silence from most people on Mother’s Day was a bit deafening. And I got a couple of people who reached out to me who are not even necessarily the closest people in my network, and, boy, does that mean the world to just acknowledge, like, “I’m just thinking about you today. This must be really tough,” or whatever. It might be, you know, saying, “I know you’re coming up on your due date. This must be really hard.” The silence can be deafening. And most people want to talk about, you know, the babies that they lost and their love for them because, you know, we’re deceased kids but we did have children, you know. Yeah.

Dr. Fox: Yeah. We had someone tell her story about losing twins and she said the exact same thing. She said, “Mother’s Day is a very painful day, but when people reach out and say…” You know, she has other children, and they say, you know, “It’s Mother’s Day. Happy Mother’s Day. I’m also thinking of your girls, right, the twins.” And she said that is, like, the most helpful thing to get through it because it’s not just the loss, but it’s the loss of their memory. It’s like they didn’t exist. And so people recognize them. It’s as if they’re still a part of them that’s around.

And that’s very meaningful to people, obviously, because it’s such a black hole on a day. Like, again, whether it’s Mother’s Day, whether it’s the due date, whether it’s the day of the procedure, whatever the dates are that trigger those types of feelings, for someone to fill that void by saying, “I’m thinking about your baby, and I’m thinking about you and your connection to this baby on this day,” is so powerful for them.

Dr. Huselid: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Fox: And then obviously, we’ve been talking about this the whole podcast and last week is raising awareness and advocacy that essentially, you know, by talking about this, we give people a sense that this is real, that this happens. How have you felt that? Because again, you sort of “went public” right away as you said. How have you seen change in terms of awareness or advocacy just in your own life and then maybe broadly?

Dr. Huselid: Oh, my goodness. And I’m not sure I’m going to have anything really profound to say about that. You know, I feel like, yeah, I went public and it was public light. My Facebook settings are in private and I certainly do not have thousands of followers or anything.

Dr. Fox: Well, you’re here now.

Dr. Huselid: But I’m here now. This is public heavyweight. I don’t know. I don’t know it.

Dr. Fox: Oh, we got millions and millions of people.

Dr. Huselid: Millions. I know.

Dr. Fox: We’re like the… Joe Rogan, forget it. We’re way, way above that. Yeah.

Dr. Huselid: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s a little hard to say. I’m not sure. I’m not sure that I’ve seen the effects. And again, I’ve just been walking through this path and in this community for the past five years. I think for people who have been in this community, who have, you know, undergone terminations for medical reasons, you know, a decade ago, it is vastly different, the awareness that is out there, and yet we have a lot more work to do. You know, I think, you know, I talked a little bit earlier about how it is wild to me that so many resources on pregnancy and information guides, including Emily Oster’s “Expecting Better,” which I loved. Oh, my goodness. I think I read three times. It’s such great length about prenatal genetic testing, the importance of ultrasound, and then it’s just like that. There’s this void about, like, what next?

And then it’s like if you happen to lose the lottery, I don’t know, you know, get that one in x number of really horrible diagnoses, and it’s like you’re kind of shunned away and nobody ever hears about those cases and yet it happens. So I think just talking about it and that this really is a thing and that people really all around are being faced with these horrible decisions that are not being made lightly. It’s just critical. And this is important for the general public, important for loved ones to know how to support people, and our lawmakers as well to recognize what is happening behind these closed doors in the doctor’s room.

Dr. Fox: Wow. Ariana, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it, I really do, taking the time. It’s not an easy story to tell. It’s painful. You know, you’re exposing your personal life to many people you don’t know. And I understand why you’re doing it and the importance of it, but that doesn’t make it easy to do. And I really appreciate it. And I’ve learned so much just in the past, you know, whatever hour-plus talking to you. And I’m sure my listeners have. And really, just thank you.

Dr. Huselid: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you for giving me a platform and letting me have this time and space to share a little bit. So thank you for all you’re doing, too. I mean, your podcast is phenomenal. I think I’ve listened to every episode.

Dr. Fox: Oh, my God. Wow. Thank you for that. All right.

Dr. Huselid: I’m a super fan.

Dr. Fox: Thank you for listening to the “Healthful Woman” podcast. To learn more about our podcast, please visit our website at www.healthfulwoman.com. That’s healthfulwoman.com. If you have any questions about this podcast or any other topic you would like us to address, please feel free to email us at hw@healthfulwoman.com. Have a great day.

The information discussed in “Healthful Woman” is intended for educational uses only. It does not replace medical care from your physician. “Healthful Woman” is meant to expand your knowledge of women’s health and does not replace ongoing care from your regular physician or gynecologist. We encourage you to speak with your doctor about specific diagnoses and treatment options for an effective treatment plan.